Buddhism Expired, says Gnanananda

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salayatananirodha
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Re: Buddhism Expired, says Gnanananda

Post by salayatananirodha » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:14 am

santa100 wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:02 pm
SarathW wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:46 pm
To be honest with you I do not think that Stephen Hawking is the smartest guy on earth.
He might not for there's another obvious candidate for the "smartest guy on earth" title whose famous equation starts with the same letter as his last name. But there's no dispute that those 2 guys are in a league of the their own. They are the arahants of scientific achievements!
The arahants have completed what was to be done and lain down the burden
Not comparable to modern scientists
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


links:
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/index.htm
http://thaiforestwisdom.org/canonical-texts/
http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html

TRobinson465
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Re: Buddhism Expired, says Gnanananda

Post by TRobinson465 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:15 am

dharmacorps wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:42 pm

I have always found the "there are no arahants anymore, Buddhism has expired, the dhamma is degenerated" statements a great excuse for not practicing or even trying very hard, personally.
If im not mistaken, i think this argument/excuse is used in Pure Land Buddhism as the reason they strive for rebirth in the Pure land rather than enlightenment in the hereandnow.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.

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rightviewftw
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Re: Buddhism Expired, says Gnanananda

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:01 am

I think the notion that after a certain period the highest human attainment is only Sotapanna is quite peculiar and has far reaching implications.

So the gradual disappearance of attainments implies that:
With the disappearance of the last Arahant whilst the other attainments remain possible none of the thus attained are to complete the task in the human realm.

With the disappearance of the last Anagami whilst the other attainments remain possible none of the thus attained are to attain Anagamiship in the human realm.

With the disappearance of the last human Sakidagami whilst the attainment of Sotapanna remains possible none of the thus attained are to attain Sakidagami fruition in the human realm. The last Sakidagamin's contemporary Sotapannas are thus incapable of attaining second path as humans.

Therefore the notion of such disappearance of attainments implies that the last human Sotapanna is incapable of attaining Second Path neither in that life nor if he was to take another human birth and is destined to realize the higher fruitions elsewhere.

As far as i know this is not impossible but is certainly noteworthy.

Another point is that the last human Anagami would not be the last to attain Anagami in the dispensation as others would be getting the Arahantship or Anagamiship attainments in other realms after him. Therefore even if there was a time of no human Sotapannas a human should still strive in that life and get the attainments in the Heavenly Realm with consecutive reappearance.

Anyway this is speculation.
Last edited by rightviewftw on Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Bundokji
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Re: Buddhism Expired, says Gnanananda

Post by Bundokji » Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:13 am

The following might be relevant to put into question the whole claim that the Dhamma can expire

https://sites.google.com/site/santipada/withoutdelay
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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Volovsky
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Re: Buddhism Expired, says Gnanananda

Post by Volovsky » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:16 am

Well, of course all our solutions for '500 years issue' are in a way corrupted since from the beginning, we know what we want to "find". The ancient buddhist were also well aware of the problem. First the duration was extended to 1000 years by saying 500 would be without garudhammas. But then 1000 also was not enough, so Buddhagosa made it 5000 assuming a gradual decline every 1000 years. Much more has been done by Mahayanists. They dealed with the issue in a straightforward Mahayana way: simply composed sutras, where Buddha himself proclaimed much longer duration of his teaching.

The attempts to solve this '500 years problem' are still done even today, but with modern methods - namely to call it a "later addition" (since it is obvious, that everything we don't like is a latter addition). This is however difficult to support since this passage appears in the scriptures of many non-theravadin early schools as well.

My position (and certainly I also know what I want to "find") is that we shouldn't try to make 5000 or 2500, etc. out of 500 years since it is not supported by sutta. I would say ~500 years after the Buddha the Dhamma became impure due to appearance of Mahayana. Mahayanists appeared around that time, and became very fast the majority. Vinaya might also had reached the level, when there were more corrupted monks than the good ones to the extend that it was not possible anymore to turn back.

It would be something like if we have 100 people who are healthy we can say "This group is healthy", but if 60 of them are sick we cannot say "the group is healthy", so the healthy group disappeared, although there are still some healthy people. The same is with disappearance of the true Dhamma (it is my idiosyncratic interpretation).

Whether there are still arahants, I don't know. Everyone who is sure there are, shouldn't forget what Buddha said to the householder Dārukammika (AN6.59):
Since, householder, you are a layman enjoying sensual pleasures, living at home in a house full of children, using sandalwood from Kāsi, wearing garlands, scents, and unguents, and receiving gold and silver, it is difficult for you to know: ‘These are arahants or on the path to arahantship.'
And those who are sure there are not, shouldn't forget brahmin Pokkharasāti (MN99):
Master Gotama, the brahmin Pokkharasāti of the Upamaññā clan, lord of the Subhaga Grove, says thus: "Some recluses and brahmins here claim superhuman states, distinctions in knowledge and vision worthy of the noble ones. But what they say turns out to be ridiculous; it turns out to be mere words, empty and hollow..."

"How then, student, does the brahmin Pokharasāti understand the minds of all recluses and brahmins, having encompassed them with his own mind?"

"Master Gotama, the brahmin Pokkharasāti does not even understand the mind of his slavewoman Puṇṇikā having encompassed it with his own mind, so how could he understand thus the minds of all recluses and brahmins?”

“Student, suppose there were a man born blind who could not see dark and light forms... He might say thus: ‘There are no dark and light forms, and no one who sees dark and light forms..."
I personally hope there are arahants :).

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AgarikaJ
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Re: Buddhism Expired, says Gnanananda

Post by AgarikaJ » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:51 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:01 am
Another point is that the last human Anagami would not be the last to attain Anagami in the dispensation as others would be getting the Arahantship or Anagamiship attainments in other realms after him. Therefore even if there was a time of no human Sotapannas a human should still strive in that life and get the attainments in the Heavenly Realm with consecutive reappearance.
I agree with your conclusion very much.

In any way, it is a question of faith to either accept the Sutta or of sufficient attainment of enlightenment to understand the true meaning of the word as handed down (if there is one).

While this is a question to which none of us might find a conclusive answer, there is also this:
Volovsky wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:16 am
I personally hope there are arahants :).
The teaching is a lake with shores of ethics, unclouded, praised by the fine to the good.
There the knowledgeable go to bathe, and cross to the far shore without getting wet.
[SN 7.21]

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Mkoll
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Re: Buddhism Expired, says Gnanananda

Post by Mkoll » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:09 am

santa100 wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:02 pm
SarathW wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:46 pm
To be honest with you I do not think that Stephen Hawking is the smartest guy on earth.
He might not for there's another obvious candidate for the "smartest guy on earth" title whose famous equation starts with the same letter as his last name. But there's no dispute that those 2 guys are in a league of the their own. They are the arahants of scientific achievements!
It's hard to say who the smartest person ever was because there are many facets of intelligence. For sheer brilliance along with major scientific contributions, I've been impressed by John von Neumann. From his wikipedia page section titled "cognitive abilities":
Other mathematicians were stunned by von Neumann's ability to instantaneously perform complex operations in his head.[179] As a six-year-old, he could divide two eight-digit numbers in his head.[180] When he was sent at the age of 15 to study advanced calculus under analyst Gábor Szegő, Szegő was so astounded with the boy's talent in mathematics that he was brought to tears on their first meeting.[26]

The Nobel Laureate Hans Bethe speculated: "I have sometimes wondered whether a brain like von Neumann's does not indicate a species superior to that of man".[19] Seeing von Neumann's mind at work, Eugene Wigner wrote, "one had the impression of a perfect instrument whose gears were machined to mesh accurately to a thousandth of an inch."[181] Paul Halmos states that "von Neumann's speed was awe-inspiring."[18] Israel Halperin said: "Keeping up with him was ... impossible. The feeling was you were on a tricycle chasing a racing car."[182] Edward Teller admitted that he "never could keep up with him".[183] Teller also said "von Neumann would carry on a conversation with my 3-year-old son, and the two of them would talk as equals, and I sometimes wondered if he used the same principle when he talked to the rest of us."[184] When George Dantzig brought von Neumann an unsolved problem in linear programming "as I would to an ordinary mortal", on which there had been no published literature, he was astonished when von Neumann said "Oh, that!", before offhandedly giving a lecture of over an hour, explaining how to solve the problem using the hitherto unconceived theory of duality.[185]

Lothar Wolfgang Nordheim described von Neumann as the "fastest mind I ever met",[179] and Jacob Bronowski wrote "He was the cleverest man I ever knew, without exception. He was a genius."[186] George Pólya, whose lectures at ETH Zürich von Neumann attended as a student, said "Johnny was the only student I was ever afraid of. If in the course of a lecture I stated an unsolved problem, the chances were he'd come to me at the end of the lecture with the complete solution scribbled on a slip of paper."[187] Eugene Wigner writes: "'Jancsi,' I might say, 'Is angular momentum always an integer of h?' He would return a day later with a decisive answer: 'Yes, if all particles are at rest.'... We were all in awe of Jancsi von Neumann".[188]

Halmos recounts a story told by Nicholas Metropolis, concerning the speed of von Neumann's calculations, when somebody asked von Neumann to solve the famous fly puzzle:[189]

Two bicyclists start 20 miles apart and head toward each other, each going at a steady rate of 10 mph. At the same time a fly that travels at a steady 15 mph starts from the front wheel of the southbound bicycle and flies to the front wheel of the northbound one, then turns around and flies to the front wheel of the southbound one again, and continues in this manner till he is crushed between the two front wheels. Question: what total distance did the fly cover? The slow way to find the answer is to calculate what distance the fly covers on the first, southbound, leg of the trip, then on the second, northbound, leg, then on the third, etc., etc., and, finally, to sum the infinite series so obtained.

The quick way is to observe that the bicycles meet exactly one hour after their start, so that the fly had just an hour for his travels; the answer must therefore be 15 miles.

When the question was put to von Neumann, he solved it in an instant, and thereby disappointed the questioner: "Oh, you must have heard the trick before!" "What trick?" asked von Neumann, "All I did was sum the geometric series."[18]

Eugene Wigner told a similar story, only with a swallow instead of a fly, and says it was Max Born who posed the question to von Neumann in the 1920s.[190]

Von Neumann was also noted for his eidetic memory (sometimes called photographic memory). Herman Goldstine wrote:

One of his remarkable abilities was his power of absolute recall. As far as I could tell, von Neumann was able on once reading a book or article to quote it back verbatim; moreover, he could do it years later without hesitation. He could also translate it at no diminution in speed from its original language into English. On one occasion I tested his ability by asking him to tell me how A Tale of Two Cities started. Whereupon, without any pause, he immediately began to recite the first chapter and continued until asked to stop after about ten or fifteen minutes.[191]

Von Neumann was reportedly able to memorize the pages of telephone directories. He entertained friends by asking them to randomly call out page numbers; he then recited the names, addresses and numbers therein.[19][192]
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

santa100
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Re: Buddhism Expired, says Gnanananda

Post by santa100 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:03 pm

Mkoll wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:09 am
Two bicyclists start 20 miles apart and head toward each other, each going at a steady rate of 10 mph. At the same time a fly that travels at a steady 15 mph starts from the front wheel of the southbound bicycle and flies to the front wheel of the northbound one, then turns around and flies to the front wheel of the southbound one again, and continues in this manner till he is crushed between the two front wheels. Question: what total distance did the fly cover? The slow way to find the answer is to calculate what distance the fly covers on the first, southbound, leg of the trip, then on the second, northbound, leg, then on the third, etc., etc., and, finally, to sum the infinite series so obtained.

The quick way is to observe that the bicycles meet exactly one hour after their start, so that the fly had just an hour for his travels; the answer must therefore be 15 miles.

When the question was put to von Neumann, he solved it in an instant, and thereby disappointed the questioner: "Oh, you must have heard the trick before!" "What trick?" asked von Neumann, "All I did was sum the geometric series."
Now that's sheer brilliance in its purest state! It's absolutely amazing what the mind can do and how little we regular folks have been utilizing it. In terms of raw processing power, there's another dude here. Although due to FG syndrome, he wasn't able to contribute much else to science other than his raw CPU power.

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StormBorn
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Re: Buddhism Expired, says Gnanananda

Post by StormBorn » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:20 pm

It appears the years of disparaging the Dhamma made his mind deranged. :rolleye:

Here in 2018 (@ 00:50:55 – 00:54:28), Kiribathgoda Gnanananda says (in Sinhala):
“Evil people seek survival by saying, ‘Achieve Path & Fruition here & now! Achieve Path & Fruition here & now!!’ When saying like that, the foolish people go after it being slaved by an emotion.

But, gather merits in order to be reborn in a heavenly realm with good company. Evil people are even jealous of it too. And, even obstructing the heavenly rebirth. After stopping [the heavenly journey], they say with evil mind, ‘Go to Nibbana here & now!’”
Therefore, according to Ganananda’s theory, Buddha is the most evil person.

The irony here is that in 2008 (@ 00:51:24), Ganananda spoke the exact opposite.

If the above translation by my friend was not accurate, SarathW can help. :smile:
“Greater in battle than the man who would conquer a thousand-thousand men, is he who would conquer just one—himself.”

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