Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist
Re: Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist
What i learned when i read the first link in the OP is how much establishing and operating Buddhist website can cost in terms of money, effort and time. I hope i can learn how to use them properly.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
This was the last word of the Tathagata.
This was the last word of the Tathagata.
Re: Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist
Yep! I thought someone might laugh at it (or even offended) given the topic at hand
brotherhood
noun
-[mass noun]the relationship between brothers
-the feeling of kinship with and closeness to a group of people or all people
-association, society, or community of people linked by a common interest, religion, or trade
“Greater in battle than the man who would conquer a thousand-thousand men, is he who would conquer just one—himself.”
Re: Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist
Was that number for real lol ?
About the problem in question, I could not agree more. That has been my experience too. Constant bullying from moderation to try to force you to leave the forum or stop engaging in topics where your opinion is not welcomed (feminist ones, that are probably more numerous than buddhist ones).
This is what happens when there is lack of wisdom in choosing who to rule a place. You can not put 20yo that are head and shoulders into an ideology and lack the experience of leadership in real life to run a place. People that have little or no real life experience in running something or being a boss over others, are inexperienced and have some problems with narcissistic traits - such people make for bad forum moderators. There are many suggestions one can find online about "how to chose forum moderators" on google.
History has shown that buddhist forums are much more prone to moderation problems than other forums. This is because of their nature. All religion or philosophy related forums are like this because of the fact that, on average, people from these fields tend to have more problems with narcissistic traits than others.
Re: Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist
Good observationchownah wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:26 pm I was a member of a buddhist forum and after posting for awhile I began to see how the administration seemed to think that those who ran the site should be looked up to and venerated just because of their position of authority. Once I had clearly seen that this is what was happening I dropped it like a rock; I withdrew my membership and never went back.
chownah
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Re: Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist
The declaration that women can attain the highest goal (nibbāna) by the buddha is a sort of feminism if you'd asked me. Real equality via gender relinquishment. Notable example from therigatha is an arahant saying she isn't properly reckoned as male, female or anything at all. Similarly, the buddha declared that deeds make a man rather than his birth (skin color). This is all the radicalism one in search of equality could ever want. At least one reputable monk, ven. anālayo, has argued against the authenticity of the garudhammas, he being an early buddhist scholar, which lends to the appropriateness of such a position on an early buddhist forum.
I host a sutta discussion via Zoom Sundays at 11AM Chicago time — message me if you are interested
Re: Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist
SC is the greatest sutta resource. Bhikkhu Sujato had performed something outstanding. Personally, I am very grateful for it. Having feminists look after the chatsite is similar to having dasi-bhariya (plural?) doing the cooking, cleaning & washing. In Buddhism, being a "housewife" appears to be a state of mind. Wherever there is rigid adherence to views & opinions; that is the sphere of the "housewife".
The form element, housewife, is the home of consciousness; one whose consciousness is shackled by lust for the form element is called one who roams about in a home. The feeling element is the home of consciousness … The perception element is the home of consciousness … The volitional formations element is the home of consciousness; one whose consciousness is shackled by lust for the volitional formations element is called one who roams about in a home. It is in such a way that one roams about in a home.
“And how, housewife, does one roam about homeless? The desire, lust, delight, and craving, the engagement and clinging, the mental standpoints, adherences, and underlying tendencies regarding the form element: these have been abandoned by the Tathagata, cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, obliterated so that they are no more subject to future arising. Therefore the Tathagata is called one who roams about homeless. The desire, lust, delight, and craving, the engagement and clinging, the mental standpoints, adherences, and underlying tendencies regarding the feeling element … the perception element … the volitional formations element … the consciousness element: these have been abandoned by the Tathagata, cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, obliterated so that they are no more subject to future arising. Therefore the Tathagata is called one who roams about homeless. It is in such a way that one roams about homeless.
https://suttacentral.net/sn22.3/en/bodhi
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
Re: Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist
“The form element, householder, is the home of consciousness; one whose consciousness is shackled by lust for the form element is called one who roams about in a home.DooDoot wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:18 am
The form element, housewife, is the home of consciousness; one whose consciousness is shackled by lust for the form element is called one who roams about in a home. The feeling element is the home of consciousness … The perception element is the home of consciousness … The volitional formations element is the home of consciousness; one whose consciousness is shackled by lust for the volitional formations element is called one who roams about in a home. It is in such a way that one roams about in a home.
https://suttacentral.net/sn22.3/en/bodhi
It seems the word is Householder !
You always gain by giving
Re: Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist
It is not a baseless badmouthing.
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/br ... t/8989/116
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/br ... t/8989/117
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/br ... t/8989/118
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/fo ... ion/6978/5
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/fo ... ion/6978/8
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/fo ... ion/6978/9
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/fo ... on/6978/10
TRobinson465 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:23 amIts true its a statement of fact, .... and if you read some of SC forums they arent even remotely as fair as DW. if i tried making an account and posting my views, im sure Sujato would just block me.retrofuturist wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:18 am It's simply a statement of fact that there is a feminist agenda at Sutta Central Discourse, on account of their hiring policies for moderators, which exclude men from consideration.
TRobinson465 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:01 am Anyways sutta central is feminist cuz the admins take heavy control of what points of view are allowed. Because the few admins are feminists they push this viewpoint and silence opposing ones.
TRobinson465 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:17 amYes i agree. when its top down and POVs forced by admins like SC the culture is longer lasting.TRobinson465 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:01 am I'd imagine DW would also turn feminist if enuff really determined feminists rushed the servers and started calling any1 with a different pov a heretic or nazi.
Circle5 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:06 am That has been my experience too. Constant bullying from moderation to try to force you to leave the forum or stop engaging in topics where your opinion is not welcomed (feminist ones, that are probably more numerous than buddhist ones).
This is what happens when there is lack of wisdom in choosing who to rule a place.
You can see it for yourself:DooDoot wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:18 am Having feminists look after the chatsite is similar to having dasi-bhariya (plural?) doing the cooking, cleaning & washing. In Buddhism, being a "housewife" appears to be a state of mind. Wherever there is rigid adherence to views & opinions; that is the sphere of the "housewife".
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/br ... t/8989/116
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/br ... t/8989/117
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/br ... t/8989/118
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/fo ... ion/6978/5
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/fo ... ion/6978/8
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/fo ... ion/6978/9
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/fo ... on/6978/10
"Bhikkhus, whatever the Tathāgata speaks, _ all that is just so and NOT otherwise."
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Re: Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist
Al forums have their idiosyncrasies.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
Re: Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist
I looked at the links you have provided. The first two pertain about public discussion of moderation, which for good reason is frowned upon in discussion boards, as it can (and will) lead to endless recriminations. If there is criticism about moderators, it is best practice to sort it out with them in private messages.thang wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:37 pm The forum SuttaCentral can be seen catering feminist ideologies very strongly.
Is it appropriate to maintain Buddhist forums with such an extremism and non-Buddhist ideologies?
Non feminist users are getting banned and suspended. Moderators have been ganged up and post warnings against non extremist users or people with different ideas.
You can easily see what is going on there by visiting following links.
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/di ... tors/10639
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/fo ... ation/6978
Gender Equality catering is an ant-Sutta behavior.
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/se ... stics/8805
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/ch ... hists/9925
Refusing Garudhamma:
http://santifm.org/santipada/wp-content ... #tth_chAp2
I am sure this is the same in Sutta Central Discourse at it would be here on Dhamma Wheel, so I am not sure why you carry this private conflict over here.
With regard to the views that Bikkhuni Vimala expresses in her post https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/se ... stics/8805; I find her questions valid:
"How do we fit into a 2500 year old system that has seen many socio-cultural changes over time? How many changes have actually been made to the texts after the Buddha’s passing away and why?"
Her conclusion I find highly suspect, namely that we need further changes to the texts to 'modernize' them or that maybe some of the texts are invalidated due to being later additions (which would, I guess, include the Garudhamma).
Still, I would listen to her arguments and then would wish that somebody knowledgeable would discuss her based on the argument itself and refute her if she is mistaken in her view. Only such a discourse would have merit.
To broadly deny the validity of her argument because her views are generally 'feminist' (and especially doing this on a forum where she might not partake in the discussion) is, to my mind, not Right Speech.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .wlsh.html
I have gotten the impression that the discourse of Ajahn Sujato does not lack in knowledge of scripture. Which would make me very careful to reject any discussion happening on SuttaCentral -- which happens, as it was implied rightly or wrongly, happens with his tacit approval -- out of hand and without carefully looking at it in detail."Monks, do not wage wordy warfare, saying: 'You don't understand this Dhamma and discipline, I understand this Dhamma and discipline'; 'How could you understand it? You have fallen into wrong practices: I have the right practice'; 'You have said afterwards what you should have said first, and you have said first what you should have said afterwards'; 'What I say is consistent, what you say isn't'; 'What you have thought out for so long is entirely reversed'; 'Your statement is refuted'; 'You are talking rubbish!'; 'You are in the wrong'; 'Get out of that if you can!'
"Why should you not do this? Such talk, monks, is not related to the goal, it is not fundamental to the holy life, does not conduce to disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, tranquillity, higher knowledge, enlightenment or to Nibbana. When you have discussions, monks, you should discuss Suffering, the Arising of Suffering, its Cessation, and the Path that leads to its Cessation. Why is that? Because such talk is related to the goal... it conduces to disenchantment... to Nibbana. This is the task you must accomplish."
Which would lead me to a suggestion to you, Thang: as you seem personally unhappy about the conclusions with regard to the validity (or not) of the Garudhamma, why don't you open up a thread here with this discussion point specifically. The personal recriminations clouding this issue of yours are just an unhelpful deflection.
The teaching is a lake with shores of ethics, unclouded, praised by the fine to the good.
There the knowledgeable go to bathe, and cross to the far shore without getting wet.
[SN 7.21]
There the knowledgeable go to bathe, and cross to the far shore without getting wet.
[SN 7.21]
Re: Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist
Hi ,
I think you don't understand the real situation over there . This is not just feminism .The moderators and their like minded members would gangs up to attack on those whom posted some different perspective ! Or if you Questioning their pov .
Sometimes even without valid reason after you just post some questions only .
You don't even no you had been abused until suddenly it came clear to you after many incident occurs and after over a period lapsed .
I don't know if you ever heard of Gaslighting ?!
You always gain by giving
Re: Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist
In a libertarian society there is no need for feminism or any type of gender or racial based movements, thus there is true equality. Discrimination can only happen when it involves the law and authority, in other words, socialism and the distribution of wealth. If forcing private companies to pay women more, or hire more women is feminism, then feminsm is simply rebranded communism, which is extremely bad and far from equality.retrofuturist wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:18 am Greetings,
Are you suggesting that feminism is bad?TRobinson465 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:15 am Not that im a fan of SuttaCentral's forums or its moderators. but isnt there a rule about talking bad about other Buddhist forums?
But that's a topic for another forum..
Makes me wonder, are governments not breaking the precept of taking what's not given? Hmm..
Re: Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist
Personally, I think it is unskillful to invite open dispute about the knowledge of a certain bhikkhu. Buddhism is something extremely sectarian. Ajahn Sujato's views are merely sectarian; similar to say how my personal views are sectarian. If I was a member of SC, out of mere respect, I would not challenge Ajahn Sujato's views, even if I did not agree with them. Sectarianism is like this; any opportunity for accepting diversity rather than claiming authority.
For me, it would be joyful meritorious liberation to reject probably the majority of the discussions on SC; the foremost in noble kamma.
This would be similar to the old martyrs reborn into the heavily realms. Pure joy. Refer to MN 21: The Simile of the Saw. The point is those Feminists do not appear to be free. Why be concerned with them? Buddhism teaches to have equanimity; reflecting on the law of kamma.
Last edited by DooDoot on Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:55 am, edited 13 times in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
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Re: Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist
Greetings,
Metta,
Paul.
The Buddha allowed for appropriate levels of taxation, so I'd suggest no.... but nice "taxation is theft" gag nonetheless.
Metta,
Paul.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."