Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
thang
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Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:37 pm

Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist

Post by thang » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:37 pm

The forum SuttaCentral can be seen catering feminist ideologies very strongly.
Is it appropriate to maintain Buddhist forums with such an extremism and non-Buddhist ideologies?
Non feminist users are getting banned and suspended. Moderators have been ganged up and post warnings against non extremist users or people with different ideas.
You can easily see what is going on there by visiting following links.

https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/di ... tors/10639
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/fo ... ation/6978

Gender Equality catering is an ant-Sutta behavior.

https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/se ... stics/8805
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/ch ... hists/9925

Refusing Garudhamma:

http://santifm.org/santipada/wp-content ... #tth_chAp2
Last edited by thang on Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Bhikkhus, whatever the Tathāgata speaks, utters, or expounds
in the interval between
the night when he awakens to the unsurpassed perfect enlightenment
and the night when he attains final nibbāna,
all that is just so and not otherwise"
;

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Sam Vara
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Re: Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist

Post by Sam Vara » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:01 pm

I don't think it's right to have a discussion about the relative merits of other forums in the "General Theravada" section, so would just point out that other sites are run differently. They have a perfect right to run that way if they want to, and there is no need to engage with them if one disagrees with their political stance or their moderation style. I only use SC for looking up suttas. It's wonderful for that; like a big empty library with excellent signage and not a feminist in sight.

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Zom
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Re: Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist

Post by Zom » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:16 pm

I only use SC for looking up suttas. It's wonderful for that; like a big empty library with excellent signage and not a feminist in sight.
:D

Well... hard not to agree here ))

chownah
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Re: Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist

Post by chownah » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:26 pm

I was a member of a buddhist forum and after posting for awhile I began to see how the administration seemed to think that those who ran the site should be looked up to and venerated just because of their position of authority. Once I had clearly seen that this is what was happening I dropped it like a rock; I withdrew my membership and never went back.

If fighting with feminists is not what you want to do then the best thing is to just ignore it and have faith that other people are capable of seeing what is happening and can either jump right in to the discussion or just ignore it.
chownah

thang
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Re: Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist

Post by thang » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:40 pm

The recommendation about SuttaCentral by DhammaWheel as a theravadin resource guide (viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3012) may be only on their EBT works.
It seems like they do a great service by publishing suttas.
But still they don't seem like Pure Theravadins.
"Bhikkhus, whatever the Tathāgata speaks, utters, or expounds
in the interval between
the night when he awakens to the unsurpassed perfect enlightenment
and the night when he attains final nibbāna,
all that is just so and not otherwise"
;

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StormBorn
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Re: Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist

Post by StormBorn » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:02 pm

thang wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:40 pm
The recommendation about SuttaCentral by DhammaWheel as a theravadin resource guide (viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3012) may be only on their EBT works.
It seems like they do a great service by publishing suttas.
But still they don't seem like Pure Theravadins.
Pure Theravadins? This Wiki page thinks otherwise:
In this account, the council was convened at Pāṭaliputra over matters of vinaya, and it is explained that the schism resulted from the majority (Mahāsaṃgha) refusing to accept the addition of rules to the Vinaya by the minority (Sthaviras). The Mahāsāṃghikas therefore saw the Sthaviras as being a breakaway group which was attempting to modify the original Vinaya.

Scholars have generally agreed that the matter of dispute was indeed a matter of vinaya, and have noted that the account of the Mahāsāṃghikas is bolstered by the vinaya texts themselves, as vinayas associated with the Sthaviras do contain more rules than those of the Mahāsāṃghika vinaya. Modern scholarship therefore generally agrees that the Mahāsāṃghika vinaya is the oldest. According to Skilton, future historians may determine that a study of the Mahāsāṃghika school will contribute to a better understanding of the early Dhamma-Vinaya than the Theravāda school.
“Greater in battle than the man who would conquer a thousand-thousand men, is he who would conquer just one—himself.”

thang
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Re: Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist

Post by thang » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:48 pm

There is no problem if they appear as any "non-Theravadin" or "mixed" tradition.
The problem is they appear to be Theravadin but their behaviour is non-Theravadin or mixed.
"Bhikkhus, whatever the Tathāgata speaks, utters, or expounds
in the interval between
the night when he awakens to the unsurpassed perfect enlightenment
and the night when he attains final nibbāna,
all that is just so and not otherwise"
;

2600htz
Posts: 362
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:37 pm

Re: Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist

Post by 2600htz » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:29 pm

Hello:

I read the topic posts but they were mainly general statements about what "suttacentral is supposed to be".
Could you provide some links about how suttacentral is catering feminist ideologies?.

Regards.

dharmacorps
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Re: Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist

Post by dharmacorps » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:06 pm

thang wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:48 pm
The problem is they appear to be Theravadin but their behaviour is non-Theravadin or mixed.
So because you don't like someone else's behavior (a moderator or otherwise), they aren't a part of your religious tradition? :shrug:

No question forums can and do have political slants, but if you can't play nice the problem may not be the moderators.

thang
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Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:37 pm

Re: Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist

Post by thang » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:39 pm

Theravadins accept 'Garudhamma's but SuttaCentral says it as inauthentic.
Many of their site's essays are on gender equality.
Even the sutta analysis is biased towards proving gender equality.

Here are some examples:

https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/se ... stics/8805
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/ch ... hists/9925
http://santifm.org/santipada/wp-content ... #tth_chAp2
"Bhikkhus, whatever the Tathāgata speaks, utters, or expounds
in the interval between
the night when he awakens to the unsurpassed perfect enlightenment
and the night when he attains final nibbāna,
all that is just so and not otherwise"
;

User avatar
Sam Vara
Posts: 4487
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Sussex, U.K.

Re: Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist

Post by Sam Vara » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:07 pm

thang wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:48 pm
There is no problem if they appear as any "non-Theravadin" or "mixed" tradition.
The problem is they appear to be Theravadin but their behaviour is non-Theravadin or mixed.
Two points here. The first is that Sutta Central don't make any claims to be Theravadan, as far as I can see. The term does not appear on their front page.

The second point is about why the issue is at all important. Even if SC did claim to be Theravadan, and had a lot of feminist content, why would this matter? There would be nothing that anyone could do about it. If you argued about it on SC itself, you would get banned. If you argued about it here, then you might get some sympathy from like-minded members of DW, but I think we might safely say that SC would not alter their position one iota. It seems the best strategy would be to acknowledge that some sites run differently, be grateful that not all sites run that way, and carry on...

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khemindas
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Re: Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist

Post by khemindas » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:47 pm

Sujato't blog is very feminist as well, most of his topic is question of how poor females suffer in the world from men demons. But strangely many people who marry, can have experience of wife demon, but he is not discussing this :)

2600htz
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Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:37 pm

Re: Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist

Post by 2600htz » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:00 pm

thang wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:39 pm
Theravadins accept 'Garudhamma's but SuttaCentral says it as inauthentic.
Many of their site's essays are on gender equality.
Even the sutta analysis is biased towards proving gender equality.

Here are some examples:

https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/se ... stics/8805
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/ch ... hists/9925
http://santifm.org/santipada/wp-content ... #tth_chAp2
Hello:

Thank you.

-Regarding different genders and ordination i had to read a little. It seems the term "pandaka" allows homosexuals to ordain but not people with sex change operations, unless we take a liberal approach of the concept, and i think its easier to preserve the teachings by being conservative.

-About the essay "Separate but Equal", i think it comes down to practical matters, sometimes its good to mix, sometimes its good to separate. But i disagree with the spirit of the essay, and the concept of "we are all equals so lets make unisex bathrooms for monks and nuns " hmm i don`t think its right.

But, i think suttacentral has the right to publish anything they want. Maybe Banthe Sujato is a feminist and some of the moderators, they can have their own views.

Regards.

BKh
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Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 12:43 am

Re: Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist

Post by BKh » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:25 pm

I'm surprised that no one has clarified that SuttaCentral.net is one thing and discourse.suttacentral.net is another. The confusion is not without cause and people making bug reports often don't understand the difference.

SuttaCentral.net is a website that contains mostly "Early Buddhist Texts" from different language traditions, translated into a variety of languages, often with parallels noted. But other than noting parallels between different text, the only commentary on the text comes with a short summary of each sutta (at least the Pali suttas). As a general rule, there are no footnotes or introductions to the texts. At this point all the texts from the first four nikayas have been translated into English at least once. Including the suttas that mention the garudhammas, btw.

Discourse.suttacentral.net is a discussion forum. Topics are supposed to be limited to discussions of "early Buddhist texts," and SuttaCentral.net.

I believe that the OP is criticizing things that people have posted on Discourse.suttacentral.net and the action of moderators on that forum. It should also be pointed out that the software for the forum is quite different from the software used on all the Dhammawheel versions. It is software that allows active participants to engage more in traditional moderation activities.
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santa100
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Re: Why SuttaCentral is so Feminist

Post by santa100 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:12 pm

BKh wrote:I'm surprised that no one has clarified that SuttaCentral.net is one thing and discourse.suttacentral.net is another. The confusion is not without cause and people making bug reports often don't understand the difference.
That's true but Sujato's agenda's already crept over into the suttacentral.net space, as this case in point. I actually don't care about their feminist agenda, but when they use it as an excuse to distort the Dhamma and Vinaya, that's where we should draw the line and we have to make it absolutely clear that it's not acceptable. I paid a dear price for doing exactly that and am proud of it.

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