"Dependent Origination in reverse order" is nothing but the removal of causes. Re-read the sutta and you will see it is so.
Metta,
Paul.
"Dependent Origination in reverse order" is nothing but the removal of causes. Re-read the sutta and you will see it is so.
Thanks Paul. Sounds reasonable; similar to Luang Por Buddhadasa, who once said:
It appears the opinion of Luang Por Buddhadasa appeared to be certain (noble) actions lead to the cooling of the defilements.Nobody can create Nibbāna as it is beyond all causes and conditions. Nevertheless, we can create the conditions for realizing Nibbāna through actions which lead to the abandonment of the defilements.
https://www.suanmokkh.org/books/84#start_reading
In Pali, there is the word "nibbāpeyya" (related to the Sanskrit "nirvāpayati" found in the Rigveda) which may possibly reflect what the writer on the internet was attempting to say:retrofuturist wrote: ↑Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:14 am the opinion you read on the Internet would appear to be in error.
Suppose a person was to drop a burning torch in a thicket of dry grass. If they don’t quickly extinguish it with their hands and feet, the creatures living in the grass and wood would come to ruin.
Seyyathāpi, bhikkhave, puriso ādittaṃ tiṇukkaṃ sukkhe tiṇadāye nikkhipeyya; no ce hatthehi ca pādehi ca khippameva nibbāpeyya. Evañhi, bhikkhave, ye tiṇakaṭṭhanissitā pāṇā te anayabyasanaṃ āpajjeyyuṃ
https://suttacentral.net/sn14.12/en/sujato
Sk. ni(r)vārayati, Caus. of ni(r)varati, influenced in meaning by nirvāpayati. Caus. of nirvāti make cool by blowing (e.g. RV x.1613). See nibbuta on etym.
I recall the suttas say (somewhere) the Path is conditioned. Here:
Monks, among all things conditioned, the Noble Eightfold Path is reckoned to be the best of them all. Those who have faith in the Noble Eightfold Path have faith in the best; and for those who have faith in the best, the best result will be theirs.
https://www.bps.lk/olib/wh/wh155_Nyanap ... I.html#S48
The noble eightfold path is said to be the best of all conditioned things.
Yāvatā, bhikkhave, dhammā saṅkhatā, ariyo aṭṭhaṅgiko maggo tesaṃ aggamakkhāyati.
https://suttacentral.net/an4.34/en/sujato
Agree the path is fabricated.I recall the suttas say (somewhere) the Path is conditioned.
Sounds reasonable. Thanks SarathW.
Friend, Markandeya. I struggle to agree with the above because the belief & conviction that Nibbana acts to cool the defilements probably gives rise to the common ideas about "God" forgiving sins, etc, which can become (bhava) very personal. For example:markandeya wrote: ↑Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:29 pmThe point of your discussion is to bring simple free flowing language into semantics...
Chapter 112: Al-Ikhlas — The Unity:
Revealed at Makkah: 4 verses
English Translation of the Holy Quran by Maulana Muhammad Ali
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
Say: He, Allah, is One.
Allah is He on Whom all depend.
He begets not, nor is He begotten;
And none is like Him.
http://www.aaiil.org/text/hq/trans/ch112.shtml
There is a problem with this statement , if the Nibbana is already here , then there is no need to practise . This probably resemble the teaching of innate nature . What you need is find out is where it is !
Maybe this has already been said or implied in this thread, but I don't think Nibbana "does" anything.
I'm curious whether this statement gives support for concepts such as "Buddha Nature", i.e. "Nibbana is already there, we just need to remove what is obscuring it."?retrofuturist wrote: ↑Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:14 am I would suggest that it is the full and complete dissolution of greed & enmity, and the cooling of the temperament which is nibbana.
Nibbana is causeless, and its presence is characterised by the absence of such causes.
Being causeless, it is also not a cause, so the opinion you read on the Internet would appear to be in error.
Informal, yes....(As was mentioned here, whoever said that was speaking very informally, imprecisely, and ok, incorrectly.)
IMHO.
A Catholic Wanderer that abandoned the Gospels.
Thanks John. It appears you share the view of Retrofuturist & Luang Por Buddhadasa.
Thanks for your interest Mike. Imo, the statement does not support the idea of "Buddha Nature" because minds (beings) have many inherent unwholesome qualities that appear to not guarantee reaching & knowing Nibbana. As for "Nibbana is already there, we just need to remove what is obscuring it"; how does this conflict with the Pali suttas? Are you suggesting Nibbana is "mind-made" or a "nama-dhamma" ("mental phenomena) or "sankhata-dhatu" ("conceptually constructed element")?
But precisely because there is an unborn — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated, escape from the born — become — made — fabricated is discerned.
But since there is a not-born, a not-brought-to-being, a not-made, a not-conditioned, therefore an escape is discerned from what is born, brought-to-being, made, conditioned.
Ud 8.3
It is just as if a man, traveling along a wilderness track, were to see an ancient path, an ancient road, traveled by people of former times. He would follow it. Following it, he would see an ancient city, an ancient capital inhabited by people of former times, complete with parks, groves, & ponds, walled, delightful.
SN 12.65
There are these two elements:
Dve imā, ānanda, dhātuyo—
the conditioned element and the unconditioned element.
saṅkhatādhātu, asaṅkhatādhātu.
When a mendicant knows and sees these two elements,
Imā kho, ānanda, dve dhātuyo yato jānāti passati—
they’re qualified to be called ‘skilled in the elements’.”
ettāvatāpi kho, ānanda, ‘dhātukusalo bhikkhū’ti alaṃvacanāyā”ti.
MN 115
Thanks James. It appears you share a similar view or concerns of MikeNZ. I think if there is ancient treasure of gold & silver buried in the ground; you still must work and dig to find it. Similarly, if there is a Path to Nibbana, I think a person must walk that Path to find the end of suffering. Thus, there appears to be a need to practise.
Dhp 275. Walking upon this path you will make an end of suffering.
I can agree with you and James too.cappuccino wrote: ↑Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:49 pm The Pali Canon offers sufficient evidence to dispense with the opinion of some interpreters that Nibbæna is sheer annihilation; even the more sophisticated view that Nibbæna is merely the destruction of defilements and the extinction of existence cannot stand up under scrutiny. Probably the most compelling testimony against that view is the well-known passage from the Udæna that declares with reference to Nibbæna that “there is an unborn, unbecome, unmade, unconditioned,” the existence of which makes possible “escape from the born, become, made and conditioned” (Ud 8.3)
It is “the unborn, unageing, unailing, deathless, sorrowless, undefiled supreme security from bondage,” which the Buddha attained to on the night of his enlightenment (M 26.18)
The Island: Teachings on Nibbana
Ajahn Amaro, Ajahn Pasanno