Authenticity. From: Why Read the Suttas?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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DooDoot
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Re: Authenticity. From: Why Read the Suttas?

Post by DooDoot » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:45 pm

markandeya wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:39 pm
Nothing wrong with getting to grips with the intellect but to get stuck in them is not wise.
Everything wrong with not getting to grips with the intellect. The intellect is merely the servant of wisdom. Whatever is realised with wisdom is communicated via the intellect. When getting to grips with the intellect has not occurred, enlightenment has not occurred. Thus the result is poor intellect. Poor communication. Problems with semantics. Like speaking Chinese to Indians.
markandeya wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:39 pm
Just goes round and round.
Yes, round & round to Hinduism, Zen, Buddhism, Catholicism, Guru X, Guru Y, Luang Por A, Luang Por B, Lama G, Lama D, Rinpoche M, Master P, etc. Round and round and round the world (loka) of Gods, Selves, Atmans, Views & Doctrines. The Dogma of "Neti, Neti" - "Me, Me". :roll:
Sweeney wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:09 pm
In what way?
You see, there is an inherently violent Hindu Guru tradition exemplified by Hindu Gurus such as KM & UG; always violently scolding & putting down others; always treating others as though they are not practising & should be practising. This violent tradition of Self & Conceit is not Buddhism. Those that practise this Exalting Oneself & Disparaging Others are not practising the Dhamma (MN 139). Its best to merely discuss the teachings & doctrines. If you tell someone to "Taste the Honey", this is the presumption they have not tasted the honey. Presumption is conceit & not dhamma.

Best wishes :heart:
Never ordained... not an anonymous-online-bhikkhu or ex-bhikkhu...

markandeya
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Re: Authenticity. From: Why Read the Suttas?

Post by markandeya » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:23 pm

I can accept what you say but not in the way you say it. If you say there is no problems in Buddhism then its naive and not true, again lacks balance of the whole. The essence of all Dharma traditions is one. I fully respect the traditions in their own right. My issues are with foreign concepts mostly from empirical reasoning as per modern education and religious doctrinal methods based on fear tactics, intimidation and mental bullying, almost the same as everything you seemed obsessed by. I would agree in India and among Hindu gurus there are serious problems, but not everywhere.



Intellect is defined in other ways spiritually, one side is Buddha as complete and perfect enlightenment, other two sides are one by Ven Sariputra and Maha Mogallana. Sariputra kept the external teachings spotless while Mogallana was more lucid, each had there strengths and weaknesses and was perfected by Buddha.

Intellect based solely on empirical reasoning will not produce the right paradigm shift, same as objective science, they have success in a certain scope of knowledge but fail in other areas, trying to fit all the teachings into a one doctrine simple wont work and people either conform to it usually by bullying and being dominated by empirical perfectionist. Its put of balance. Its not dependent on being word perfect. You may intimidate others but not me, I just find it boring and highlighting the same problem. You may know books but totally lack any experience. It just stuck in words rather than letting the words set you free.

Some people not be great at typing but are very developed people internally and visa verse, its never black and white, tradition even under the garb of Buddhist middle way can be just as fundamental, its based on conditions of the person.

Natural introspects are dumbed down by your methods, often by the same aggressive tactics that you have become obsessed with. Its dampens the real freedom of Thervada, which is hardly seen in practical life, only the internet. Real life has separate challenges.

So its not about reading the suttas but whats the method. Your good at logic and copy and pasting and quoting, but I cant ever see how you can express your own understanding, your relying on tools to do the thinking for you, thats not intellect, its a form but only empirical and external. Take away all your external props and you are weak, thats why your glued to the internet. Its your only strength.

At the end of the day you create your own prison.
Last edited by markandeya on Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sweeney
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Re: Authenticity. From: Why Read the Suttas?

Post by Sweeney » Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:02 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:45 pm
Sweeney wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:09 pm
In what way?
You see, there is an inherently violent Hindu Guru tradition exemplified by Hindu Gurus such as KM & UG; always violently scolding & putting down others; always treating others as though they are not practising & should be practising. This violent tradition of Self & Conceit is not Buddhism. Those that practise this Exalting Oneself & Disparaging Others are not practising the Dhamma (MN 139). Its best to merely discuss the teachings & doctrines. If you tell someone to "Taste the Honey", this is the presumption they have not tasted the honey. Presumption is conceit & not dhamma.
I think you are taking what I said way to much too heart. I'm sorry if you've had some bad experiences with certain dogmas in your life, but I was merely making an analogy in response to your own. If you go back and read my posts I'm sure that you will see this. I also don't see how you're in a position of authority to tell me I shouldn't make such posts on account of me being a newbie, as I do not see how I am breaking any of the ToS. To add to that, this is the General Therevada discussion section "A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism ". If it was in the Classical Theravada section, then yes, the post would technically be deemed inappropriate for that particular part of the forum, but then this topic most likely would not have lead to a post about Ajahn Chah saying to "Taste the Honey".

I'm sorry if I've offended you by my post, I was merely trying to take part in a discussion. I agree that it is very important to read the Sutta's so as to know what one is undertaking when one starts to practice Buddhist meditation. But obviously not everyone reads the Sutta's first. Some are drawn to meditation first, and then move on to the Sutta's afterwards in an effort to further their practice. Just as one would upon tasting a Jar of honey and being delighted by the flavor, want to know where it came from and where to get more; again just making an analogy and trying to take part in a discussion.
Sabbapāpassa akaraṇaṃ
Kusalassa upasampadā
Sacittapariyodapanaṃ
Etaṃ buddhāna sāsanaṃ
~ Dhp 183 ~

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Sam Vara
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Re: Authenticity. From: Why Read the Suttas?

Post by Sam Vara » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:27 pm

Sweeney wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:02 pm
I also don't see how you're in a position of authority to tell me I shouldn't make such posts on account of me being a newbie, as I do not see how I am breaking any of the ToS. To add to that, this is the General Therevada discussion section "A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism ". If it was in the Classical Theravada section, then yes, the post would technically be deemed inappropriate for that particular part of the forum, but then this topic most likely would not have lead to a post about Ajahn Chah saying to "Taste the Honey".
Moderator note: You are quite correct, Sweeney. Nobody is in a position of authority to tell you that you shouldn't make such posts on account of you being a newbie; and you are not breaking any of the ToS. :anjali:

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