Taking Refuge Phonetic Pronounciation

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Post Reply
FairyFeller
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:20 pm

Taking Refuge Phonetic Pronounciation

Post by FairyFeller » Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:08 pm

I am planning to attend my local Monastary next week to take refuge with a monk and would like to learn the correct pronunciation. I know they won’t judge me on my attempt but out of respect I would like to get it right.

When I did this 3 years ago they gave me a cue card but I still ended up mumbling it and this time round I would like to get it right before I go. It will also help with my daily practice as I can take refuge every morning.

The few examples I’ve already found sound really muffled and I’d like to do it clearly.

User avatar
Sam Vara
Posts: 4267
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Sussex, U.K.

Re: Taking Refuge Phonetic Pronounciation

Post by Sam Vara » Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:29 pm

Is it said, or chanted? If the latter, you might want to search via Google for the particular lineage concerned.

I had a quick search, and found this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zANB3b0LlE

which is clear enough to be recognisable and even copiable if you had the text as well. Find a video (there seem to be more of them than audio tapes) that sounds familiar, and then go through it with the text.

This one from Amaravati is very clear, and even if the chanting is different, it should help you with pronunciation.

https://www.amaravati.org/audio/paritta ... s-page-27/

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 16452
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand

Re: Taking Refuge Phonetic Pronounciation

Post by mikenz66 » Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:25 pm

Hi FairyFeller

A slightly strange title, in that the rendition of Pali in Roman is phonetic. However, one needs to know the phonetic rules used by the transliteration.

There is a useful guide here: https://www.dhammatalks.org/books/Chant ... n0003.html

You may find the discussion here useful: viewtopic.php?t=32056 as it covers the length of syllables, which is a crucial part of chanting, and a concept rather confusing to English speakers.

I find that one of the key problems with pronunciation of other languages is figuring out how to parse the syllables. Most really bad pronunciations come from running syllables together by reading them as if they were bits of English words. This is a problem with Pāli, Thai, etc, and, closer to home for me, Māori.
Consider the example I posted here: viewtopic.php?t=32056#p475328
Van - - ma - haṁ ta - ma - ra - ṇaṁ si - ra - ji - nen - daṁ
…with the bolded syllables receiving a full-length beat, and the others only a half-length.
For the first word, vandāmahaṁ, an English speaker might be inclined to break it up as:
"van-dām-a-haṁ", or "vand-ām-a-haṁ". I'm not sure if it is completely general, but usually a consonant starts a new syllable unless there are two consonants together, as in "van-dā...", "Bud-dha", and so on. [Of course, the latter is often mispronounced as "Budd-ha" - note that the "dh" is a single (aspirated) consonant for the purposes of this discussion, just as the "Th" in "Thai" is a single consonant - but not pronounced as the "th" in "the" - It's "T(h)ai-land", not "Thigh-land"...]

:heart:
Mike

User avatar
Dhammanando
Posts: 4154
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Ban Sri Pradu Rubber Forest, Phrao, Chiangmai

Re: Taking Refuge Phonetic Pronounciation

Post by Dhammanando » Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:09 am

FairyFeller wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:08 pm
I am planning to attend my local Monastary next week to take refuge with a monk and would like to learn the correct pronunciation. I know they won’t judge me on my attempt but out of respect I would like to get it right.
It might be best to rehearse using a youtube video of the refuges and precepts being given. If you search youtube for "five precepts" and then add "Sri Lankan", "Thai" or whatever, you should find something suitable.

How the pronunciation would be represented phonetically will depend on which country the monks are from. Based on the phonetic description given in the ancient Pali grammars the pronunciation should be represented in the International Phonetic Alphabet like this:
buddʱã saraɳã ɡaccʰaːmi
dʱammã saraɳã ɡaccʰaːmi
saŋɡʱã saraɳã ɡaccʰaːmi

dutijampi buddʱã saraɳã ɡaccʰaːmi
dutijampi dʱammã saraɳã ɡaccʰaːmi
dutijampi saŋɡʱã saraɳã ɡaccʰaːmi

tatijampi buddʱã saraɳã ɡaccʰaːmi
tatijampi dʱammã saraɳã ɡaccʰaːmi
tatijampi saŋɡʱã saraɳã ɡaccʰaːmi

1. paːɳaːtipaːtaː ʋeːramaɳiː sikkʰaːpadã samaːdijaːmi
2. adinnaːdaːnaː ʋeːramaɳiː sikkʰaːpadã samaːdijaːmi
3. kaːmeːsu miccʰaːcaːraː ʋeːramaɳiː sikkʰaːpadã samaːdijaːmi
4. musaːʋaːdaː ʋeːramaɳiː sikkʰaːpadã samaːdijaːmi
5. suraːmeːraja maɟɟa pamaːdaʈʈʰaːnaː ʋeːramaɳiː sikkʰaːpadã samaːdijaːmi
This will be nearly the same as the pronunciation of a modern Indian monk.

The modern Sinhalese pronunciation is also quite similar to this except that: (1) aspirated consonants are realised as non-aspirates; (2) the short ‘a’ is often (though not consistently) realised as a schwa; (3) the pure nasal ‘ṃ’ is realised as the velar nasal ‘ṅ’ (i.e., like the ‘ng’ in ‘song’ rather than the ‘n’ in French ‘vin’). There are however exceptions: some Sri Lankan monks make a conscious effort to pronounce according to the grammarians’ rules. Typically, however, it will be something like this:
buddəŋ sərəɳəŋ ɡəccaːmi
dəmməŋ sərəɳəŋ ɡəccaːmi
səŋɡəŋ sərəɳəŋ ɡəccaːmi

dutijəmpi buddəŋ sərəɳəŋ ɡəccaːmi
dutijəmpi dəmməŋ sərəɳəŋ ɡəccaːmi
dutijəmpi səŋɡəŋ sərəɳəŋ ɡəccaːmi

tətijəmpi buddəŋ sərəɳəŋ ɡəccaːmi
tətijəmpi dəmməŋ sərəɳəŋ ɡəccaːmi
tətijəmpi səŋɡəŋ sərəɳəŋ ɡəccaːmi

1. paːɳaːtipaːtaː ʋeːrəməɳiː sikkaːpədəŋ səmaːdijaːmi
2. ədinnaːdaːnaː ʋeːrəməɳiː sikkaːpədəŋ səmaːdijaːmi
3. kaːmeːsu miccaːcaːraː ʋeːrəməɳiː sikkaːpədəŋ səmaːdijaːmi
4. musaːʋaːdaː ʋeːrəməɳiː sikkaːpədəŋ səmaːdijaːmi
5. suraːmeːrəjə məɟɟə pəmaːdəʈʈaːnaː ʋeːrəməɳiː sikkaːpədəŋ səmaːdijaːmi
The Thai (Mahanikaya) pronunciation differs very radically from what the ancient grammars prescribe, most conspicuously by multiple errors in voicing and by the Indic dental and retroflex consonants both being realised as alveolars:
pʰuttʰaŋ saranaŋ kʰattɕʰaːmi
tʰammaŋ saranaŋ kʰattɕʰaːmi
saŋkʰaŋ saranaŋ kʰattɕʰaːmi

tʰutijampi pʰuttʰaŋ saranaŋ kʰattɕʰaːmi
tʰutijampi tʰammaŋ saranaŋ kʰattɕʰaːmi
tʰutijampi saŋkʰaŋ saranaŋ kʰattɕʰaːmi

tatijampi pʰuttʰaŋ saranaŋ kʰattɕʰaːmi
tatijampi tʰammaŋ saranaŋ kʰattɕʰaːmi
tatijampi saŋkʰaŋ saranaŋ kʰattɕʰaːmi

paːnaːtipaːtaː weːramaniː sikkʰaːpatʰaŋ samaːtʰijaːmi
atʰinnaːtʰaːnaː weːramaniː sikkʰaːpatʰaŋ samaːtʰijaːmi
kaːmeːsu mittɕʰaːtɕaːraː weːramaniː sikkʰaːpatʰaŋ samaːtʰijaːmi
musaːwaːtʰaː weːramaniː sikkʰaːpatʰaŋ samaːtʰijaːmi
suraːmeːraja mattɕʰa pamaːtʰattʰaːnaː weːramaniː sikkʰaːpatʰaŋ samaːtʰijaːmi

FairyFeller
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:20 pm

Re: Taking Refuge Phonetic Pronounciation

Post by FairyFeller » Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:51 pm

Whoops, I seem to have forgotten to mention they will be in Pali and the monastery is in the Thai Forest Tradition.

I’m having trouble finding a clear YouTube video either due to my poor efforts or maybe I’m just not listening.

User avatar
Dhammanando
Posts: 4154
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Ban Sri Pradu Rubber Forest, Phrao, Chiangmai

Re: Taking Refuge Phonetic Pronounciation

Post by Dhammanando » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:21 pm

FairyFeller wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:51 pm
Whoops, I seem to have forgotten to mention they will be in Pali and the monastery is in the Thai Forest Tradition.
This is quite a clear recording...

.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: auto, denise, Kim OHara, Majestic-12 [Bot], rightviewftw, robertk, Sam Vara, smallchap, Yahoo [Bot] and 96 guests