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Re: Nibbana experienced at mind-sense base... NOT

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:15 am
by Dinsdale
cappuccino wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:30 pm
Nirvana is a state, a type of consciousness


How could a type of consciousness be unconditioned?

Re: Nibbana experienced at mind-sense base... NOT

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:14 pm
by cappuccino
Consciousness without feature,
without end,
luminous all around

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... html#fnt-1

Re: Nibbana experienced at mind-sense base... NOT

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:35 pm
by rightviewftw
cappuccino wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:14 pm
Consciousness without feature,
without end,
luminous all around

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... html#fnt-1
I am curious
How would you explain the difference between the these terms "Consciousness without feature" and "Consciousness"?

Re: Nibbana experienced at mind-sense base... NOT

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:02 pm
by cappuccino
Consciousness (as we know it) is about eyes, ears, tongue, etc.

Re: Nibbana experienced at mind-sense base... NOT

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:05 pm
by rightviewftw
cappuccino wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:02 pm
Consciousness (as we know it) is about eyes, ears, tongue, etc.
is associated with those yes, do you hold it to also be associated with mind?

what about Consciousness without a feature, do you hold it to be associated with anything? a person that is or a person that was, the mind of a person that was or a soul of a person that was ie

Re: Nibbana experienced at mind-sense base... NOT

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:40 pm
by cappuccino
Soul is nowhere refuted in the scriptures.

Re: Nibbana experienced at mind-sense base... NOT

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:47 pm
by rightviewftw
cappuccino wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:40 pm
Soul is nowhere refuted in the scriptures.
is the soul of one person different from the soul of another or does everyone have one and the same soul?

btw ninja turtles are nowhere refuted in the scriptures.
Image

Re: Nibbana experienced at mind-sense base... NOT

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:22 am
by Dinsdale
cappuccino wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:14 pm
Consciousness without feature,
without end,
luminous all around
I assume this type of consciousness doesn't arise in dependence upon sense-base and sense-object, like the usual six? Does this mean it is always present? And what is it conscious of?

Re: Nibbana experienced at mind-sense base... NOT

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:26 am
by Dinsdale
Polar Bear wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:57 am
Dinsdale wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:35 am
Polar Bear wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:07 am
It’s obvious that the absence of greed, hate, and delusion is something to be known by the mind.
I would describe these as qualities of the mind ( citta ), bearing in mind the third frame of the Satipatthana Sutta. Though the qualities ( "symptoms" ) of something are not necessarily the thing itself.
Polar Bear wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:07 am
So in this sense, Nibbana is an object of the mind.
I don't think that follows, since this would make Nibbana like a transient thought or feeling, something conditioned.
Of course the liberated mind has the quality of being free of greed, hate, and delusion. And this can be known by the mind. In other words, the mind can know it is liberated. Since nibbana is defined as freedom from greed, hatred, and delusion, then knowing such freedom is knowing nibbana. Of course, the knowing is a transient recognition of a permanent freedom. The arahant will never again be subject to greed, hate, and delusion. This is permanent.
I think that a permanently altered state of mind is a reasonable way of describing Nibbana, though whether that's all it is I am less sure.