Nibbana experienced at mind-sense base... NOT

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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rightviewftw
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Re: Nibbana experienced at mind-sense base... NOT

Post by rightviewftw » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:27 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:55 pm
Nirvana is said to be everlasting

that's not eternal ism

eternal ism is about constancy of identity


(identity is inconstant)
everlasting
/ɛvəˈlɑːstɪŋ/Submit
adjective
1.
lasting forever or a very long time.
eternal
/ɪˈtəːn(ə)l,iːˈtəːn(ə)l/Submit
adjective
1.
lasting or existing forever; without end.
forever
/fəˈrɛvə/Submit
adverb
1.
for all future time; for always.
"she would love him forever"
2.
continually.
lasting
/ˈlɑːstɪŋ/Submit
adjective
enduring or able to endure over a long period of time.
Now i am not Pali learned but i know a little bit about the terminology used to describe the qualities of the referent;

dhuvam - stable or constant
appavatta - non-continuing, non-persisting
There, monks, I say there is surely no coming, no going, no persisting[/color], no passing away, no rebirth. It is quite without support, unmoving, without an object,—just this is the end of suffering.”
https://suttacentral.net/en/ud8.1
akālika - timeless / beyond time /not-time
“Bhikkhu, there is no form … no feeling … no perception … no volitional formations … no consciousness that is permanent, stable, eternal, not subject to change, and that will remain the same just like eternity itself.”
...
“Therefore … Seeing thus … He understands: ‘… there is no more for this state of being.’”
The other, having no residue for the future,
Is that wherein all modes of being utterly cease.
Last edited by rightviewftw on Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:48 pm, edited 9 times in total.

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cappuccino
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Re: Nibbana experienced at mind-sense base... NOT

Post by cappuccino » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:30 pm

Nirvana is a state, a type of consciousness

Nirvana is not a lack of consciousness
“Life is anxiety”

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cappuccino
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Re: Nibbana experienced at mind-sense base... NOT

Post by cappuccino » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:33 pm

Nirvana is a refuge

annihilation conflicts with a refuge
Last edited by cappuccino on Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:50 pm, edited 6 times in total.
“Life is anxiety”

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rightviewftw
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Re: Nibbana experienced at mind-sense base... NOT

Post by rightviewftw » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:36 pm

why don't you address the points i am making rather than just repeating the mantra?

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cappuccino
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Re: Nibbana experienced at mind-sense base... NOT

Post by cappuccino » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:42 pm

you're quoting a middle view and interpreting it as an extreme view
“Life is anxiety”

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cappuccino
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Re: Nibbana experienced at mind-sense base... NOT

Post by cappuccino » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:55 pm

approximation
noun
a value or quantity that is nearly but not exactly correct
Last edited by cappuccino on Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“Life is anxiety”

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rightviewftw
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Re: Nibbana experienced at mind-sense base... NOT

Post by rightviewftw » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:57 pm

well i can't do anything if you are not going to address the points i am making. If you do have an explanation for words;

dhuvam - stable or constant
appavatta - non-continuing, non-persisting
akālika - timeless / beyond time /not-time

and can reconcile them with your view of Eternal State of Mind; Go Ahead!

Nibbana is referred to once as Everlasting in a alternative translation of the Anāsavādi Sutta
However the word there is Dhuvam;
B. Bodhi pins it as Stable
Sujato pins it as Constant

Either way if you want to pin it as Everlasting you need to reconcile it with the other two
appavatta - non-continuing, non-persisting
&
akālika - timeless / beyond time /not-time

While you are at it explain how there is an after post-cessation of time
after
/ˈɑːftə/Submit
preposition
1. in the time following (an event or another period of time).
Go ahead and try.
Last edited by rightviewftw on Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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cappuccino
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Re: Nibbana experienced at mind-sense base... NOT

Post by cappuccino » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:00 am

the reconciling is that Nirvana is beyond

therefore difficult to describe

one may approximate
Last edited by cappuccino on Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:10 am, edited 3 times in total.
“Life is anxiety”

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rightviewftw
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Re: Nibbana experienced at mind-sense base... NOT

Post by rightviewftw » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:03 am

if this is the best you can do, i think we are finished here.

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cappuccino
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Re: Nibbana experienced at mind-sense base... NOT

Post by cappuccino » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:05 am

I already understand

mostly it's difficult to teach someone
“Life is anxiety”

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Re: Nibbana experienced at mind-sense base... NOT

Post by rightviewftw » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:08 am

cappuccino wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:05 am
I already understand

mostly it's difficult to teach someone
Perhaps you do understand but you are certainly unable to verbalize it. Furthermore what you do verbalize is contradicted by the Sutta. Furthermore you are unable to reconcile your statements with the Sutta.

Yes i imagine you would run into difficulty when attempting to teach in front of a learned assembly.
Last edited by rightviewftw on Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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cappuccino
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Re: Nibbana experienced at mind-sense base... NOT

Post by cappuccino » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:11 am

the very words and language used to approximate will confuse you - if you take each word far too seriously
“Life is anxiety”

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rightviewftw
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Re: Nibbana experienced at mind-sense base... NOT

Post by rightviewftw » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:14 am

cappuccino wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:11 am
the very words and language used to approximate will confuse you - if you take each word far too seriously
You are actually complimenting me when you say this. As a matter of fact I do try take every word most seriously because i respect the meaning of words & context and can therefore form accurate ideas of the referent and the meaning to be inferred.
Last edited by rightviewftw on Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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cappuccino
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Re: Nibbana experienced at mind-sense base... NOT

Post by cappuccino » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:16 am

I said far too seriously, this is the middle way

rather than the extreme way

annihilation is an extreme
“Life is anxiety”

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Re: Nibbana experienced at mind-sense base... NOT

Post by cappuccino » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:18 am

before you say the other extreme is the eternal

that's not accurate, the other extreme is constant identity

Nirvana is eternal
“Life is anxiety”

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