When you kill you are killing yourself?

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SarathW
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When you kill you are killing yourself?

Post by SarathW »

When you kill you are killing yourself?
In the following video ( in the Sinhalese language) Ven Kumara Kassapa argues that the chicken is your own mental construct and when you kill the chicken you are effectively killing yourself.

Does this argument make sense?

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Crazy cloud
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Re: When you kill you are killing yourself?

Post by Crazy cloud »

Yes, it does in my world and practice.
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
chownah
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Re: When you kill you are killing yourself?

Post by chownah »

What self would that be?
chownah
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Crazy cloud
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Re: When you kill you are killing yourself?

Post by Crazy cloud »

It is before self
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
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bodom
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Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: When you kill you are killing yourself?

Post by bodom »

From the Sangama Sutta:
A man may plunder
as long as it serves his ends,
but when others are plundered,
he who has plundered
gets plundered in turn.

A fool thinks,
'Now's my chance,'
as long as his evil
has yet to ripen.
But when it ripens,
the fool
falls
into pain.

Killing, you gain
your killer.

Conquering, you gain one
who will conquer you;
insulting, insult;
harassing, harassment.

And so, through the cycle of action,
he who has plundered
gets plundered in turn.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

:namaste:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
Bundokji
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Re: When you kill you are killing yourself?

Post by Bundokji »

No, it does not make any sense.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
rolling_boulder
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Re: When you kill you are killing yourself?

Post by rolling_boulder »

:juggling:

It kinda makes sense on the conventional plane but I think it would require some particular interpretations of kamma and "the mind" which are not neccesarily supportable by Pali scripture alone. It is true in the same way that aversion to a particular person is actually self-referential, because the image of the person you are averse to actually exists in your own mind. It doesn't affect the other person at all unless you act on it. So in this way it is true that aversion is one part of the mind pouring hate onto another part of the mind, kind of like poisoning your own well. Or mutually assured destruction. In this vein, to call aversion "killing yourself" would be quite literally correct. Much the same with killing, but with this type of action, it involves both the mental image and the quite real chicken who is another being who feels and is affected by your actions, and is not just a mental construct.

It doesn't apply to the level of ultimate Dhamma. What self would "you" be killing, after all? But we don't usually speak on this level as it is too difficult linguistically.
Citta, these are the world's designations, the world's expressions, the world's ways of speaking, the world's descriptions, with which the Tathagata expresses himself but without grasping to them.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

Many everyday concepts do not apply to the level of ultimate Dhamma, so if we use this as the criterion for whether a statement makes sense, then the only statement that makes sense is "dependently originated phenomena interacted," or if you wanted to take it even further, "This." Which is not really a useful way of talking.



But anyway. Bhante is probably just using this teaching as a way to convince people not to kill, rather than making ultimate statements about reality. So it's better not to grasp this teaching wrongly and use it as a way of encouraging yourself to keep sila, which is probably the real intention.
The world is swept away. It does not endure...
The world is without shelter, without protector...
The world is without ownership. One has to pass on, leaving everything behind...
The world is insufficient, insatiable, a slave to craving.
TRobinson465
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Re: When you kill you are killing yourself?

Post by TRobinson465 »

Makes no sense at all. when you harm others you do harm yourself due to harming your mind and creating bad kamma for yourself. however saying killing a chicken is killing yourself because it is a mental construct makes no sense at all.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
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