When was Gotama a sotapanna?

[cookiemonster]

Before he became the Buddha ... at what point in his lifestream was he considered a sotapanna?

[DNS]

Before he became the Buddha ... at what point in his lifestream was he considered a sotapanna?

He never was a sotapanna. The previous dispensation of Kassapa had died out and Gotama re-discovered the Dhamma. He went straight to fully enlightened arahant and samma-sam-buddha.

[SarathW]

Sotapanna means the elimination of three fetters.
Clinging to rites and rituals: Few days (months) before his enlightenment he gave up the austerities such as punishing the body.
Personality view: Perhaps he realised this on the first night just before his enlightenment.
Doubt: Perhaps he did eliminate the doubt many eons ago. Otherwise, he will not perform ten Paramis for such a long time.
I may be wrong.

[User1249x]

DNS is correct,
The aspirations and prior development of the Bodhisatta lead to initial path attainment resulting in Buddhahood, the most developed type of Arahantship

[DooDoot]

Before he became the Buddha ... at what point in his lifestream was he considered a sotapanna?

I imagine at the point where he discovered self-view was an illusion & suffering but his mind had not yet uprooted the defilements, such as at SN 12.10. SN 12.10 makes no claims to arahantship yet Dependent Origination was discovered. Gotama's awakening appears to have occurred over 3 watches of a night yet SN 12.10 would have occurred in a few moments.

[Sam Vara]

In terms of "milestones" or significant points in his progress towards liberation, AN 3.39 seems quite significant. As a layperson living a protected and luxurious life, the Buddha-to-be reflects on the realities of ageing, sickness, and death, and thereby comes to renounce the vanity of youth, health, and life:

Amid such prosperity and such a delicate lifestyle, I thought: ‘When an uneducated ordinary person—who is liable to grow old, not being exempt from old age—sees someone else who is old, they’re horrified, repelled, and disgusted, overlooking the fact that they themselves are in the same situation. But since I, too, am liable to grow old, it would not be appropriate for me to be horrified, embarrassed, and disgusted, when I see someone else who is old.’ Reflecting like this, I entirely gave up the vanity of youth.

I have never quite understood the reasoning presented here, but the result is profound.

If I were to be disgusted
with creatures whose nature is such,
it would not be appropriate for me,
since my life is just the same.

Living in such a way,
I understood the reality without attachments.
I mastered all vanities—
of health, of youth,

and even of life—
seeing safety in renunciation.
Zeal sprang up in me
as I looked to extinguishment.

Now I’m unable
to indulge in sensual pleasures;
there’s no turning back,
until the spiritual life is complete.

As well as the renunciation of kama-raga, this also seems a foretaste of nibbana (In fact, Bhikkhu Bodhi renders one phrase "I clearly saw nibbana"), and the sense is that there is no turning back from the goal.

[salayatananirodha]

I don't think there is hard evidence in the early suttas, but it's the case that a follower of the buddha will die as at least a stream enterer if they have sufficient faith in the tathāgata or if they accept the impermanence of things. When the bodhisatta went forth under kassapa buddha, it's rather reasonable to assume that he attained stream entry at the end of his life.

[TRobinson465]

He went straight to Arahant, you dont need to go through each phase. its possible he was a sottapanna in one of his recent past lives tho. although i dont think its stated anywhere.

[SarathW]

He went straight to Arahant

It is possible for a person to go through all four stages in few though moments.

[Dhammanando]

Before he became the Buddha ... at what point in his lifestream was he considered a sotapanna?

In the Suttas' account of a Buddha's enlightenment he attains knowledge of the destruction of the āsavas in the third watch of the night.

In the more detailed commentarial account this destruction is effected by the arising of the four Ariyan path and fruition consciousnesses in rapid succession.

With the arising of the path of stream-entry, diṭṭhi āsava is destroyed.
With the arising of the path of once-returning, kāma āsava is weakened.
With the arising of the path of non-returning, kāma āsava is destroyed and bhava āsava weakened.
With the arising of the path of arahatta, bhava and avijjā āsava are destroyed.

So according to this understanding the Bodhisatta was a virtuous worldling (kalyāna-puthujjana) until the end of the middle watch of the night and then at some point during the last watch he was very briefly a sotāpanna.

[SarathW]

With the arising of the path of stream-entry, diṭṭhi āsava is destroyed.

Thank you Bhante.
So. The main ingredient of becoming Sotapanna is destroying ditthi asava.
What is the significance of other two?

[Garrib]

I don't think there is hard evidence in the early suttas, but it's the case that a follower of the buddha will die as at least a stream enterer if they have sufficient faith in the tathāgata or if they accept the impermanence of things. When the bodhisatta went forth under kassapa buddha, it's rather reasonable to assume that he attained stream entry at the end of his life.

The problem I see here is that the stream-enterer can only be reborn a maximum of 7 times more before attaining final awakening...but didn't the Bodhisatta need more than 7 rebirths to accumulate sufficient merit and conditions for Samma-sambodhi?

So perhaps there is something about his aspiration/vow, or the previous Buddha's prophesy, or some other condition, that would prevent the realization of stream entry??

[SarathW]

maximum of 7 times more before attaining final awakening

Here the maximum is seven but no minimum. So it could be this life itself.
Perhaps that means seven thought moments for the remaining seven fetters.

[Garrib]

maximum of 7 times more before attaining final awakening

Here the maximum is seven but no minimum. So it could be this life itself.
Perhaps that means seven thought moments for the remaining seven fetters.

I'm choosing to treat your response as a koan

What you say is interesting - I had never made the connection between the remaining fetters and the amount of (potential) lives remaining for the stream enterer. Is there any explicit mention of this connection in the suttas?

[salayatananirodha]

I don't think there is hard evidence in the early suttas, but it's the case that a follower of the buddha will die as at least a stream enterer if they have sufficient faith in the tathāgata or if they accept the impermanence of things. When the bodhisatta went forth under kassapa buddha, it's rather reasonable to assume that he attained stream entry at the end of his life.

The problem I see here is that the stream-enterer can only be reborn a maximum of 7 times more before attaining final awakening...but didn't the Bodhisatta need more than 7 rebirths to accumulate sufficient merit and conditions for Samma-sambodhi?

So perhaps there is something about his aspiration/vow, or the previous Buddha's prophesy, or some other condition, that would prevent the realization of stream entry??

Kassapa and Gotama Buddhas arose in the same aeon (in this aeon five buddhas will have arisen). And a lifespan in heaven can be extremely long, so if Gotama Buddha went to heaven after attaining stream entry that would account for much of or all the difference.
I don't see the evidence otherwise; if there are special rules for bodhisattas I don't have that knowledge.