Is consciousness the problem

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Dinsdale
Posts: 5963
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: Is consciousness the problem

Post by Dinsdale » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:45 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:24 am
Dinsdale wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:16 am
Fortunately it is possible to practice using the phenomenological approach, which means we are only concerned with the phenomena actually experienced via the sense bases.
But you are still within the subject/object dichotomy which is mental. Phenomenon do not exist in the absolute sense. How can you 'experience' this? All experience is self-view, no matter how you slice it or dice it.
Have you actually practiced using the phenomenological approach? Do you have any idea what is involved? ( I suspect not, given your tautological comment about phenomena not existing in an absolute sense ).

Here again it seems like you are only interested in proselytizing your own view, rather than engaging in points of discussion or trying to understand other perspectives. :shrug:
Saengnapha wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:24 am
That is why it is said that an awakened one has no experience. It is finished. Cessation.
What precisely do you mean by "experience"?
Buddha save me from new-agers!

Saengnapha
Posts: 1350
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:17 am

Re: Is consciousness the problem

Post by Saengnapha » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:42 pm

Dinsdale wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:45 pm
Saengnapha wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:24 am
Dinsdale wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:16 am
Fortunately it is possible to practice using the phenomenological approach, which means we are only concerned with the phenomena actually experienced via the sense bases.
But you are still within the subject/object dichotomy which is mental. Phenomenon do not exist in the absolute sense. How can you 'experience' this? All experience is self-view, no matter how you slice it or dice it.
Have you actually practiced using the phenomenological approach? Do you have any idea what is involved? ( I suspect not, given your tautological comment about phenomena not existing in an absolute sense ).

Here again it seems like you are only interested in proselytizing your own view, rather than engaging in points of discussion or trying to understand other perspectives. :shrug:
Saengnapha wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:24 am
That is why it is said that an awakened one has no experience. It is finished. Cessation.
What precisely do you mean by "experience"?
The perceptual creation of a subject and object, self-view.
For me, all approaches are within the realm of self-view without exception. This is not proselytizing. This is how I see the Buddha's teaching. I am happy to hear what you think represents a different perspective.

form
Posts: 681
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:23 am

Re: Is consciousness the problem

Post by form » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:31 pm

There is a higher level of consciousness as in a consciousness with less defilement to the highest, no defilement (final goal). The higher level the topic, the more limitation words can have in explaining it. This is due to the stereotyping we have about meaning of certain words unconsciously.

When looking at the word consciousness in dependant origination, it seems like volition support consciousness, removal of volition will cease consciousness totally. In reality, things do not turn from black to white instantly, most of the time the change is gradual. Ignorance is the most latent defilement, because of that there is karma/volition/emotion/tendencies/urge/impulse.....which give rise to a consciousness (a sense of a being).

As one progress, more and more defilements (in terms of types and degree) are removed. Even the "one" is just there to carry the meaning across, as in is there an unchanging "one"?

Therefore, i dun think the word consciousness should not be the problem.

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