Is it possible for deva to get ordain ?

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sentinel
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Is it possible for deva to get ordain ?

Post by sentinel » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:45 am

Greetings ,

Is there any sutta mention deva going forth ?
Is it possible for deva to get ordain as a monk ?
Either ordain in the deva realm or descending to the earth to get ordain ?

:namaste:
No way is the way

chownah
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Re: Is it possible for deva to get ordain ?

Post by chownah » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:18 pm

I'm not very knowledgeable about rules for monks but I think that in the rules it says that only human being can be ordained an during the ordaining ceremony the question is asked whether the person seeking ordination is a human being.
chownah
P.S. Yeah, it talks about this at this site....search it for "human".
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... bl133.html
;;;or you could google for buddhism ordain human being and probaby find some stuff.
chownah

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Is it possible for deva to get ordain ?

Post by JamesTheGiant » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:26 am

James Tan wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:45 am
Is there any sutta mention deva going forth ?
Is it possible for deva to get ordain as a monk ?
From the monk's rules, these beings cannot ordain:
a pandaka (essentially, a eunuch or a person born neuter—see Sanghadisesa 2),
a “non-human” being, (this includes nagas, petas, devas, and yakkhas),
a hermaphrodite,
a person who poses as a bhikkhu without having been ordained,
a bhikkhu who has ordained in another religion without first giving up his status as a bhikkhu,
a person who has murdered his father,
a person who has murdered his mother,
a person who has murdered an arahant,
a person who has sexually molested a bhikkhuni,
a person who has maliciously injured a Buddha to the point of causing him to bleed, and
a person who has dishonestly caused a schism in the Sangha, knowing or suspecting that his position was contrary to the Dhamma-Vinaya.

From Buddist Monastic Code 1, pg 99
There's a fun and sad story about a giant Naga serpent who wanted to be a monk, and died of sadness when the Buddha said no. Someone else can post the story here, I'm not sure where to find it.

sentinel
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Re: Is it possible for deva to get ordain ?

Post by sentinel » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:35 am

JamesTheGiant wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:26 am
James Tan wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:45 am
Is there any sutta mention deva going forth ?
Is it possible for deva to get ordain as a monk ?
From the monk's rules, these beings cannot ordain:
a pandaka (essentially, a eunuch or a person born neuter—see Sanghadisesa 2),
a “non-human” being, (this includes nagas, petas, devas, and yakkhas),
a hermaphrodite,
a person who poses as a bhikkhu without having been ordained,
a bhikkhu who has ordained in another religion without first giving up his status as a bhikkhu,
a person who has murdered his father,
a person who has murdered his mother,
a person who has murdered an arahant,
a person who has sexually molested a bhikkhuni,
a person who has maliciously injured a Buddha to the point of causing him to bleed, and
a person who has dishonestly caused a schism in the Sangha, knowing or suspecting that his position was contrary to the Dhamma-Vinaya.

From Buddist Monastic Code 1, pg 99
There's a fun and sad story about a giant Naga serpent who wanted to be a monk, and died of sadness when the Buddha said no. Someone else can post the story here, I'm not sure where to find it.
Is the above statement about deva is in the patimokka or commentary ?
No way is the way

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Is it possible for deva to get ordain ?

Post by JamesTheGiant » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:41 am

James Tan wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:35 am
Is the above statement about deva is in the patimokka or commentary ?
The patimokka is a part of the vinaya, and the above statement is in another part of vinaya. So it's part of the pali canon, not commentary.

TRobinson465
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Re: Is it possible for deva to get ordain ?

Post by TRobinson465 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:51 am

James Tan wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:45 am
Greetings ,

Is there any sutta mention deva going forth ?
Is it possible for deva to get ordain as a monk ?
Either ordain in the deva realm or descending to the earth to get ordain ?

:namaste:
In Theravada higher ordination procedure there is a an examination from the Sangha part where the potential monk is asked a series of questions. one of these questions is "Manusosi" in Pali, or "are you a human?". So no, devas cannot ordain sadly. at least not as the bhikkhus/bhikkhuni of our world. And the other James gave another example from the scriptures as well.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.

TRobinson465
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Re: Is it possible for deva to get ordain ?

Post by TRobinson465 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:53 am

In fact, in thailand potential ordinands are called "nagas" (nak). If im not mistaken the reason for that is because of that naga story mentioned earlier where a naga tried to ordain and the Buddha rejected him and made a rule you have to be a human.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.

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_anicca_
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Re: Is it possible for deva to get ordain ?

Post by _anicca_ » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:23 am

JamesTheGiant wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:26 am

There's a fun and sad story about a giant Naga serpent who wanted to be a monk, and died of sadness when the Buddha said no. Someone else can post the story here, I'm not sure where to find it.
Yes, as another has mentioned this is how the anagarika started.
"A virtuous monk, Kotthita my friend, should attend in an appropriate way to the five clinging-aggregates as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a dissolution, an emptiness, not-self."

:buddha1:

http://vipassanameditation.asia

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