Does the cause for craving is feeling ?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Garrib
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Re: Does the cause for craving is feeling ?

Post by Garrib » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:58 am

James Tan wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:28 am
Garrib wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:38 pm
James Tan wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:59 pm
Greetings ,


https://suttacentral.net/dn15/en/bodhi

“Thus, Ānanda, with mentality-materiality as condition there is consciousness; with consciousness as condition there is mentality-materiality; with mentality-materiality as condition there is contact; with contact as condition there is feeling; with feeling as condition there is craving; with craving as condition there is clinging; with clinging as condition there is existence; with existence as condition there is birth; and with birth as condition, aging and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief, and despair come to be. Such is the origin of this entire mass of suffering.”



What is the main cause for craving to arise ?
Also , does an arahant still have feelings ?


:namaste:
I think that feeling conditions/precedes craving when there is ignorance. When ignorance has been destroyed (Arahant), then feeling may still arise so long as that kamma which produces feeling has not been exhausted. However, no new craving will arise from that feeling, and no new kamma will be produced.
We do not have craving all the time , so feeling should not be the main cause but ignorance .
According to cessation origination , once abandoned ignorance following by cessation of sankhara consciousness namarupa contact feeling craving and so on .
One by one will ceased to be , it seems contact has to be ceased first following by feeling , therefore , arahant looks like don't have feeling?!
Except we are told that the Buddha felt pain in his back (as an example) - what could this pain be but feeling/sensation (vedana)?? The feeling is there, but not the craving -- the Buddha's eradication of ignorance led to the end of craving, becoming, suffering, and renewed existence. However, the aggregates created through previous iterations of DO did not cease without remainder until The Buddha's Parinibbana.

Saengnapha
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Re: Does the cause for craving is feeling ?

Post by Saengnapha » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:02 am

mikenz66 wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:11 pm
JohnK wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:00 pm
How does one give up ignorant tendency with regard to neutral feeling ?!
I hope Mike or others weigh in on this question.
Ha! I wish I knew how to give up ignorant tendencies... :tongue:
Just stop trying to do something about them. It is your effort and energy that you give to resistance and trying to change yourself that is the only problem. :D

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mikenz66
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Re: Does the cause for craving is feeling ?

Post by mikenz66 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:11 am

justindesilva wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:41 am
Is it not that upekka is the neutral feeling.
If not , what is this neutral feeling?
No, it's not upekka (equanimity), it's adukkhamasukhāya, often translated as "neither pleasant nor painful".

:heart:
Mike

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mikenz66
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Re: Does the cause for craving is feeling ?

Post by mikenz66 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:15 am

Saengnapha wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:02 am
mikenz66 wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:11 pm
JohnK wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:00 pm

I hope Mike or others weigh in on this question.
Ha! I wish I knew how to give up ignorant tendencies... :tongue:
Just stop trying to do something about them. It is your effort and energy that you give to resistance and trying to change yourself that is the only problem. :D
Ha, very funny... :jumping: :jumping: :jumping:

Mike

Dinsdale
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Re: Does the cause for craving is feeling ?

Post by Dinsdale » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:26 am

Garrib wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:58 am
Except we are told that the Buddha felt pain in his back (as an example) - what could this pain be but feeling/sensation (vedana)?? The feeling is there, but not the craving --
Yes, there is still clearly physical/bodily vedana for an Arahant, which the Arahant feels "disjoined", according to the Arrow Sutta. But presumably there is no mental vedana, the second arrow.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

James Tan
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Re: Does the cause for craving is feeling ?

Post by James Tan » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:27 am

Garrib wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:58 am
James Tan wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:28 am
Garrib wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:38 pm


I think that feeling conditions/precedes craving when there is ignorance. When ignorance has been destroyed (Arahant), then feeling may still arise so long as that kamma which produces feeling has not been exhausted. However, no new craving will arise from that feeling, and no new kamma will be produced.
We do not have craving all the time , so feeling should not be the main cause but ignorance .
According to cessation origination , once abandoned ignorance following by cessation of sankhara consciousness namarupa contact feeling craving and so on .
One by one will ceased to be , it seems contact has to be ceased first following by feeling , therefore , arahant looks like don't have feeling?!
Except we are told that the Buddha felt pain in his back (as an example) - what could this pain be but feeling/sensation (vedana)?? The feeling is there, but not the craving -- the Buddha's eradication of ignorance led to the end of craving, becoming, suffering, and renewed existence. However, the aggregates created through previous iterations of DO did not cease without remainder until The Buddha's Parinibbana.
Back pain is body sensation.
In the paticasamuppada , the feeling is psychological /emotion /affection instead of bodily sensation because the five aggregates is more than rupa(bodily) aggregates . Normally , people delighted in the sight sound odour taste and tangible objects .
The arahant do not have feelings which is categorised as defilements . But , arahant do smile therefore I would think arahant do have feeling.
:reading:

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