in my opinion the buddha knew science and technology

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Dhammarakkhito
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in my opinion the buddha knew science and technology

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:03 pm

One doesn't need to know everything about every topic in order to become an arahant.

The Buddha didn't know about computers or inter-continental ballistic missiles, but that didn't stop him.
Maybe check out the Simsapa Sutta if you want to learn the Buddha's attitude about that which he did not teach
this is kind of the omniscience thread but i hope it'll be given a chance of its own. anyway, the lord buddha could see many aeons into the past, at least 91, in which many many civilizations would have arisen and fallen. and we know if we look thru digha nikaya that humans/beings lived a lot longer than they do now, for being virtuous
if ever they pursued technology or if technology is a worthwhile pursuit, they would have had much longer and more resources
anyway if we want to stand out from the omniscience thread we could talk about science being ultimately simple, contrived, reducible. seeing into the future as well, knowing that humans will develop very low life spans but then take up virtue and gain much longer life spans by the time lord metteyya comes about
science is a dhamma, the lord knew or knows all dhammas, and expounds a superior method of investigation
me personally i started as a physics major but dropped out and looking back on it i was disenchanted with it then but attributed that to depression

furthermore, science if it is to be believed must conform with the dhamma, not the other way
the beings of the upper and lower realms could well be existing in a different dimension, imperceptible to the majority of beings in this realm or plane
in the same way a 2-d being wouldn't perceive a 3-d being (in 3-d)
rohitassa sutta explains the world arises in the six sense bases. brahmajala sutta mops the floor with every philosophical perspective that has been and will be
so i'd like to start out this way and come back with some sources to show that the buddha did know more did teach more although
(see below)
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"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

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DooDoot
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Re: in my opinion the buddha knew science and technology

Post by DooDoot » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:32 am

Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:03 pm
the lord buddha could see many aeons into the past, at least 91, in which many many civilizations would have arisen and fallen.
this sounds like mythology
Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:03 pm
and we know if we look thru digha nikaya that humans/beings lived a lot longer than they do now, for being virtuous
this also sounds like mythology
Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:03 pm
we could talk about science being ultimately simple, contrived, reducible. seeing into the future as well, knowing that humans will develop very low life spans
its seems the human life span has increased as a result of science & technology
Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:03 pm
furthermore, science if it is to be believed must conform with the dhamma, not the other way
Christianity probably also thinks science should conform with the Bible
Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:03 pm
rohitassa sutta explains the world arises in the six sense bases.
the rohitassa sutta appears to refer to the world of suffering (rather than the physical world)
Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:03 pm
brahmajala sutta mops the floor with every philosophical perspective that has been and will be
the brahmajala sutta appears it mops the floor of self-views
Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:03 pm
so i'd like to start out this way and come back with some sources to show that the buddha did know more did teach more although
there appear to be contradictions in the suttas therefore i think we cannot know what the buddha taught (apart from what is realizable). regardless, i think Buddhism attacking science similar to Christianity attacking science seriously harms the image of Buddhism and particularly harms attracting people to buddhism that buddhism was designed to attract
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Re: in my opinion the buddha knew science and technology

Post by SarathW » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:44 am

I think Buddha's biggest science and technology discovery is the realisation of Anatta and Nibbana.
Many of us still do not comprehend what it is.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: in my opinion the buddha knew science and technology

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:55 am

[quote doodoot /quote]
you could just add as a signature in control panel that you dont think the digha nikaya is real buddha word, that would save time regurgitating it
i made this post before work did not gather sources only recalled from previous reading
the life span was longer during the buddha's time than it is now you may find that in other books as well
your response to rohitassa looks like a revision, it does not distinguish a physical world and a mental world, several other buddhist texts say that the world is a projection of the mind, describing a world outside of that lacks a sutta basis
i dont remember DN 1 addressing sakkaya ditthi (self view), but it addresses 62 philosophical positions, all dependent on contact (phassa), and then in another sutta 63 positions are mentioned, which includes sakkaya ditthi. i would be interested about these apparent contradictions if not here somewhere else, it would be perhaps a great learning experience
what i have been trying to say is science is slow to catch up, also there is a lot of assertions made that science = fact, when in fact it's only a working theory. if you're not dealing in falsifiable phenomena you're not doing science. 'this is not possible, that is not possible' these aren't scientific claims. 'this claim doesn't accord with the models we have' is more in line with actual scientific discovery; 'i know' is something that is impossible for a scientist to say but not for a meditator
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

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Re: in my opinion the buddha knew science and technology

Post by justindesilva » Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:55 am

On this topic science and buddhism , I have authored a book .( I refrain from naming it lest I would be misusing this forum).
Through agganna sutta, Lord budda explained that evolution and extraction and contraction of the universe takes place and scientific facts of evolution of beings are explained.
Rohitassa sutta and Rahulovada sutta explains if we investigate ourselves from within , the earth and our human physiology are made with apo, tejo, vayo , patavi and akasa dhatu as elements called maha bhuta.
Going in to satara sathipatta it further explains that the 32 parts of our system too consists too with apo tejo vayo patavi. Scientifically they can be explained as hardness (patavi or inertia) tejo ( temperature or heat) vayo ( air or gasses) apo as fluidity or friction while within our system that they can be mutually converted one in to another and is now proved by medical science.
Buddhist scientists have gone to the extent of explaining kamma with string theory and particle physics.
If you would refer to andakara sutta , it also explains the dark matter or black holes of the universe and unferstanding it relative to our perceptions.
Though there is so much more to explain in this regard I wish to break here as this may be sufficient to explain that all phenomena including the mind and its consciouness explained by Lord Budda is truly scintific.

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Re: in my opinion the buddha knew science and technology

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:36 am

Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with an impure mind a person speaks or acts suffering follows him like the wheel that follows the foot of the ox.
https://suttacentral.net/dhp/en/buddharakkhita
From the defilement of the mind are beings defiled. From the purification of the mind are beings purified.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
https://www2.southeastern.edu/Academics ... error.html
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"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught

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Re: in my opinion the buddha knew science and technology

Post by Dhammanando » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:01 am

Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:36 am
Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with an impure mind a person speaks or acts suffering follows him like the wheel that follows the foot of the ox.
https://suttacentral.net/dhp/en/buddharakkhita
From the defilement of the mind are beings defiled. From the purification of the mind are beings purified.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
https://www2.southeastern.edu/Academics ... error.html
What bearing does this have on the thread's topic?

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Re: in my opinion the buddha knew science and technology

Post by justindesilva » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:25 am

Dhammanando wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:01 am
Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:36 am
Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with an impure mind a person speaks or acts suffering follows him like the wheel that follows the foot of the ox.
https://suttacentral.net/dhp/en/buddharakkhita
From the defilement of the mind are beings defiled. From the purification of the mind are beings purified.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
https://www2.southeastern.edu/Academics ... error.html
What bearing does this have on the thread's topic?
In fact to my observation , mind precedes all mental states has a bearing on this. From DO we are aware that avijja conditions sankara ( karma perceptions ) which comes down to nama rupa and salayatana. We as beings hence exist as preceded by our own mind.
At the last condition of the DO our next birth too can vary on patisandi citta which depends on our own mind ( citta). It is also fare to see that formation of our own limbs , blindness and deaf and dumb conditions too are a cause of past kamma preceded by ones own mind.
Agganna sutta explains how ones mind precedes the future environment as explained of the way how nutrition which was like butter soft became coarse foods calked kabalika ahara.
Vasetta sutta again explains that kamma depending on the mind morals or immorals of the people have an effect on the processing of the earth.
It is stated as Kammana vattathi loko Kammana vattathi paja ......

Like wise there are many examples to see that the mind precedes all mental states which then is responsible in creating karma. The whole world is mind made is also stated by lord budda. (.......neiyathi loko....... is part of that statement ... . which the rest I forget).

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Re: in my opinion the buddha knew science and technology

Post by vassa » Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:49 am

Hi
Where could I find andakara sutta (english)?

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Re: in my opinion the buddha knew science and technology

Post by mikenz66 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:46 am

vassa wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:49 am
Hi
Where could I find andakara sutta (english)?
Darkness
Andhakāra Sutta SN 56.46 SN v 454
Interstellar space is dark and empty; but not seeing the four noble truths is even worse.
https://suttacentral.net/sn56.46/
This line is awesome... :o
“mahā vata so, bhante, andhakāro, sumahā vata so, bhante, andhakāro.
Bhikkhu Sujato:
“Sir, that darkness really is intense, so very intense. ..,
Bhikkhu Bodhi:
“That darkness, venerable sir, is indeed great; that darkness is indeed very great.
Thanissaro Bhikkhu:
“Wow, what a great darkness! What a really great darkness!
https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN56_46.html
:heart:
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Re: in my opinion the buddha knew science and technology

Post by Laurens » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:31 am

I've never encountered anything that would suggest accurate, specific predictions of the future came from the Buddha. Nor did he say anything specific about science and technology.

The Buddha taught of the path to the end of suffering, and specifically said he was not a god. I don't think it's useful to think of him as such, just put his teachings into practice
"If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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Re: in my opinion the buddha knew science and technology

Post by justindesilva » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:16 pm

Laurens wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:31 am
I've never encountered anything that would suggest accurate, specific predictions of the future came from the Buddha. Nor did he say anything specific about science and technology.

The Buddha taught of the path to the end of suffering, and specifically said he was not a god. I don't think it's useful to think of him as such, just put his teachings into practice
The predictions of lord buddha over the dreams of king Kosol at the time if budda as incidents to come in the future world is seeing to be true . Even the bad weather patterns and behaviours of people along with the distresses seem to be a true reflection of the reveals of dreams of King kosol. Sixteen are such dreams which had been explained to come true in the future times.

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Re: in my opinion the buddha knew science and technology

Post by salayatananirodha » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:38 pm

Dhammanando wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:01 am
Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:36 am
Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with an impure mind a person speaks or acts suffering follows him like the wheel that follows the foot of the ox.
https://suttacentral.net/dhp/en/buddharakkhita
From the defilement of the mind are beings defiled. From the purification of the mind are beings purified.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
https://www2.southeastern.edu/Academics ... error.html
What bearing does this have on the thread's topic?
Venerable :anjali: , what I'd gather from this is that the observations science relies or should rely upon are influenced by those observers. In short, science is only as good as the scientists. They generally don't (with perhaps the exception of Buddhist scientists) understand rightly contact, the arising thereof, the ceasing thereof or the path leading to its cessation. What they feel as the result of contact, they perceive, they think about and they proliferate (I'm referring to madhupindika sutta).

The Blessed One said, "Monks, the ending of the fermentations is for one who knows & sees, I tell you, not for one who does not know & does not see. For one who knows what & sees what? Appropriate attention & inappropriate attention. When a monk attends inappropriately, unarisen fermentations arise, and arisen fermentations increase. When a monk attends appropriately, unarisen fermentations do not arise, and arisen fermentations are abandoned. There are fermentations to be abandoned by seeing, those to be abandoned by restraining, those to be abandoned by using, those to be abandoned by tolerating, those to be abandoned by avoiding, those to be abandoned by dispelling, and those to be abandoned by developing.

- MN 2

By attending appropriately to the arising of contact we can see for ourselves the arising and ceasing aspects of the world. I seriously believe the Buddha could have discussed or even did discuss science of the time, as he declared in AN 4.24 that he knew all. Knowing the imperfect ability of the observer to make observations, the worldviews based on them, clear knowing and seeing of the world through insight meditation. In modern times, people look with awe at scientific figures but they are ultimately conditioned as we are and thus flawed.
Last edited by salayatananirodha on Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


links:
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/index.htm
http://thaiforestwisdom.org/canonical-texts/
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Pseudobabble
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Re: in my opinion the buddha knew science and technology

Post by Pseudobabble » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:47 pm

If you're going to contravene reason, why not just believe in God and be done with it?
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

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Re: in my opinion the buddha knew science and technology

Post by egon » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:35 pm

Laurens wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:31 am
I've never encountered anything that would suggest accurate, specific predictions of the future came from the Buddha. Nor did he say anything specific about science and technology.

The Buddha taught of the path to the end of suffering, and specifically said he was not a god. I don't think it's useful to think of him as such, just put his teachings into practice
Laurens... IME, there are people in every worldview who believe that there is a source of knowledge that is inexorably infallible. It's an "all or nothing" idea. In Buddhism, some people seem to think that "if the Buddha wasn't omniscient, why should I even trust the 4NT and the 8FP?" Many Christians hold the same view of Jesus. "If he wasn't divine and perfect, how can I trust his advice on how to go to heaven?"

If the people that think this way aren't harming themselves or others by it, it's cool with me. But if it causes them or others to suffer, then maybe it should be looked at critically.

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