The Uposatha, the correct time to do it

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
User avatar
Dhammarakkhito
Posts: 1115
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:31 am
Contact:

Re: The Uposatha, the correct time to do it

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:46 am

there's this one btw, it was hard for me to find the sutta in AN but i took screenshots
http://seeingthroughthenet.net/wp-conte ... _Heart.pdf
Attachments
Screen Shot 2018-06-07 at 22.44.52.png
Screen Shot 2018-06-07 at 22.45.09.png
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught

User avatar
anthbrown84
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:59 am

Re: The Uposatha, the correct time to do it

Post by anthbrown84 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:29 am

JMGinPDX wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:15 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:18 pm
anthbrown84 wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:11 pm
sorry, my point wasn't aimed at the day we practise on. It was because you said we should try to do it as best as our abilities let us....

to me that sounds like the part in the sutta where the Sakyans say they ''sometimes do, sometimes dont'' observe the uposatha... and The Buddhas reply is quite to the point on that matter
Regardless. One can do nothing more than to do their best, as often as they can.

Sometimes that is great and often, sometimes it is shite and rarely.

It is when you stop trying that things go to the dogs. Beating oneself up doesn't help in the slightest.

:anjali:
...and if I may be so bold as to expand on this with my own thought...

There's a difference between practicing "to the best of your abilities" in all earnestness and with best intentions, and practicing "sometimes I do sometimes I don't" which implies a lack of earnestness and indifference.
INTENTION and sincerity is key, as well as understanding and honoring the basic purpose of the day, which is to give pause to worldly pursuits and align with the dhamma. Specific details of when you do it, how you do it, who you do or don't talk to or what you say, etc. etc. are all details that are meant to help focus one's awareness, but it's not productive to get caught up in the details themselves.
this is very well put, thank you. it is important that we remember this, after all conditions themselves can NEVER be perfect, this is samsara after all. all we can do is sincerely intend on spending the day in the way He advises.

it does raise a question, and im aiming this at everyone for an opinion or some of their own insights into it..

when He says we shouldn't spend the Uposatha talking about kings, talk of the town etc, basically idle chatter, how does having a wife and kids fit into this.

today I am on an uposatha day and at the same time, my mother is round helping my wife strip wall paper. do i keep my interaction down to a level of exchanging greetings, general pleasent hellos and whatever else. the rest of the time either out of their way or keeping noble silence?

and is the act of stripping the wall paper itself, should i not take part because im on an uposatha? should all worldly tasks be left aside? or when The Buddha advises to keep a mind of loving kindness and contemplating the arahant/noble uposatha, is this something we can do while still being "active" and maybe keeping noble silence? doing as much meditation as the day itself allows?


thankyou kindly for an input at all.

with a smile and metta

Anthony
"Your job in practise is to know the difference between the heart and the activity of the heart, that is it, it is that simple" Ajahn Tate

User avatar
Dhammarakkhito
Posts: 1115
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:31 am
Contact:

Re: The Uposatha, the correct time to do it

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:47 am

the topics of admirable conversation have a wide range if you ask me, you might just not be used to doing it. even a talk of politics you can turn around into something wholesome. maybe this is just me but my main concern is keeping those precepts, i cant get to jacksonville every uposatha, and what if i did, my monks dont speak good english
one of the expanded virtues you'll find in DN 2 is running errands and also buying and selling. but as householders thats hard to get around, low priority if you havent mastered the five precepts, the eight precepts, generosity, good will. have you read DN 31? this is the largest sutta on buddha's advice to lay followers. https://suttacentral.net/en/dn31
dhammika sutta is also good https://suttacentral.net/en/snp2.14
but if you talk really wholesomely you'll be surprised because idle chatter slander gossip etc is common there are others who dont want to behave like that but dont find good influences, you can completely change your life without much effort at all
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught

User avatar
JMGinPDX
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:07 pm

Re: The Uposatha, the correct time to do it

Post by JMGinPDX » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:35 pm

anthbrown84 wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:29 am
JMGinPDX wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:15 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:18 pm
Regardless. One can do nothing more than to do their best, as often as they can.

Sometimes that is great and often, sometimes it is shite and rarely.

It is when you stop trying that things go to the dogs. Beating oneself up doesn't help in the slightest.

:anjali:
...and if I may be so bold as to expand on this with my own thought...

There's a difference between practicing "to the best of your abilities" in all earnestness and with best intentions, and practicing "sometimes I do sometimes I don't" which implies a lack of earnestness and indifference.
INTENTION and sincerity is key, as well as understanding and honoring the basic purpose of the day, which is to give pause to worldly pursuits and align with the dhamma. Specific details of when you do it, how you do it, who you do or don't talk to or what you say, etc. etc. are all details that are meant to help focus one's awareness, but it's not productive to get caught up in the details themselves.
this is very well put, thank you. it is important that we remember this, after all conditions themselves can NEVER be perfect, this is samsara after all. all we can do is sincerely intend on spending the day in the way He advises.

it does raise a question, and im aiming this at everyone for an opinion or some of their own insights into it..

when He says we shouldn't spend the Uposatha talking about kings, talk of the town etc, basically idle chatter, how does having a wife and kids fit into this.

today I am on an uposatha day and at the same time, my mother is round helping my wife strip wall paper. do i keep my interaction down to a level of exchanging greetings, general pleasent hellos and whatever else. the rest of the time either out of their way or keeping noble silence?

and is the act of stripping the wall paper itself, should i not take part because im on an uposatha? should all worldly tasks be left aside? or when The Buddha advises to keep a mind of loving kindness and contemplating the arahant/noble uposatha, is this something we can do while still being "active" and maybe keeping noble silence? doing as much meditation as the day itself allows?


thankyou kindly for an input at all.

with a smile and metta

Anthony
Again, I think applying mindfulness of your intent is what's really most important here:
The reason we're not supposed to engage in "idle chatter" is so we keep our mindfulness on the present moment rather than letting ourselves get distracted into worldly concerns, which pulls our mind away from the dhamma - and on an Uposatha day, that is supposed to be the primary focus. Idle chatter can be engaged in on another day...but really, the idea here is to start training the mind to not engage in it at all, on any day, and therefore change one's whole perspective on right/wrong speech, and therefore lay down one more brick on the 8-Fold Path.

So - I think - worrying too much about whether answering questions about wallpaper is 'idle chatter" is probably not important. Answer the question. Do what needs to be done right now, right here. But maybe don't get involved in a long discussion about who chose the current paper or how much you dislike dark paper because it makes the room gloomy and the last time you were in a room with yellow wallpaper it made you feel anxious and there was that one time a rat poked a hole in the wallpaper and etc. etc. etc. etc. and now the whole papanca mill is spinning out of control :)
Right now, it's like this...

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Alexander____, Baidu [Spider], Google [Bot], kamui, Majestic-12 [Bot] and 99 guests