Compassion for Women

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
befriend
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Re: Compassion for Women

Post by befriend » Sun May 27, 2018 4:27 pm

I'm not a woman but as a man I see my internal life as being incredible simple. My impression of women is that they have lots of strong feelings and they tend to think a lot. And are not as simple as men. A lot of compassion for there internal world should be held for them. As opposed to strong judgments which can lead to denigration. I think people need to study women's psychology to get a taste of what it's like to be a woman.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

ieee23
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Re: Compassion for Women

Post by ieee23 » Sun May 27, 2018 4:51 pm

I think that any woman who reads comments in this thread would get a good laugh at what was written and on a bad day feel offended.
Whatever a bhikkhu frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. - MN 19

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Bundokji
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Re: Compassion for Women

Post by Bundokji » Sun May 27, 2018 7:14 pm

Wizard in the Forest wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 1:00 pm
@Bundokji[/url]
Actually you’re ignoring a major point of practice, namely that ignoring reality or simply wishing it were otherwise is unhelpful. Accidental or not, the existence or cause of suffering is not being claimed to be one thing or another thing, it’s that actual things that happen to women I not the same as men when we say suffering exists.

Many things are being said about how gender doesn’t imply different practice, but I argue it does not because the instructions are different but the conditions are. This makes a tremendous difference.
When we acknowledge that being is accidental, we are not wishing reality to be otherwise, but we know that suffering is optional and that there is a way out as the Buddha taught.

The conditions, as you said, differs from one being to another, but they are conditions nevertheless. Focusing on conditions (rather than being fixated on their manifestations) is acknowledging the underlying democracy/equality of the law of nature. The Buddha taught: All conditioned things are impermanent, unsatisfactory, and not self. In the metta sutta, we are encouraged to wish all beings to be at ease, omitting none.

Ironically, if there is any real aristocracy (in any meaningful way) within the law of nature, it would be the degree to which we understand the four noble truths.

So, focusing on conditions results in seeing states of being, while being fixated on the manifestations turns these "states" into "status" which would then merit a special compassion towards women.

Saying all of the above does not mean that manifestations should be neglected, but should be seen for what they are: "value free", and when we stop imposing our deluded values, we stop making things worse than they already are.

To give an example from practicle experience. The other day we took a group of guests in a tour, and most of the group members were females. We drank juice and water on the way to keep ourselves hydrated, and with time, most people, naturally, felt the urge to urinate. For men, its not so complicated, we just hide behind a tree and have a piss, but for females, its more complicated. This story highlights the need for gender mainstreaming when planning infrastructure. The lack of public toilets affects women more than men, and i felt compassion/sympathy towards the women in the group who had to endure the discomfort, not because they are women, but out of understanding how their accidental being and the form they found themselves in became a cause of suffering in this particular instance.

To sum up, being anything (man, woman, cat, dog, insect ...etc) is vulnerability, and when we value this vulnerability and identify with it, we create unnecessary suffering.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

binocular
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Re: Compassion for Women

Post by binocular » Sun May 27, 2018 7:19 pm

James Tan wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 8:32 am
I am afraid I can't see why women want to hate women ? This is beyond my understanding .
It's beyond mine too.

binocular
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Re: Compassion for Women

Post by binocular » Sun May 27, 2018 8:07 pm

befriend wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 4:27 pm
I'm not a woman but as a man I see my internal life as being incredible simple. My impression of women is that they have lots of strong feelings and they tend to think a lot. And are not as simple as men. A lot of compassion for there internal world should be held for them. As opposed to strong judgments which can lead to denigration. I think people need to study women's psychology to get a taste of what it's like to be a woman.
I think it's such "study of women's psychology" that leads to strong judgments which can lead to denigration. Historically, this is what happened.

binocular
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Re: Compassion for Women

Post by binocular » Sun May 27, 2018 8:09 pm

Bundokji wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 9:33 am
Have you ever thought why the Buddha did not teach four noble truths for men, and a different set of truths for women?
Have you ever thought why the Buddha (?) taught that a buddha can only be a male, not a female?
Of course, women's special needs should be taken into consideration by the rest of society (as every other sub-group)
Women constitute more than a half of society. It's therefore perverse to call them a "subgroup"

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Bundokji
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Re: Compassion for Women

Post by Bundokji » Sun May 27, 2018 8:21 pm

binocular wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 8:09 pm
Have you ever thought why the Buddha (?) taught that a buddha can only be a male, not a female?
I encountered debates about such claims, never interested me to be honest.
Women constitute more than a half of society. It's therefore perverse to call them a "subgroup"
When i used the term "subgroup" i was referring to special needs, not demography.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

binocular
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Re: Compassion for Women

Post by binocular » Sun May 27, 2018 8:30 pm

Bundokji wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 8:21 pm
When i used the term "subgroup" i was referring to special needs, not demography.
Why call them "special" needs? Are there needs that are "normal", "ordinary"?
Are the specific needs of more than a half of the human population somehow a distancing from the norm? Who decides what that norm is?

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Bundokji
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Re: Compassion for Women

Post by Bundokji » Sun May 27, 2018 8:37 pm

binocular wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 8:30 pm
Why call them "special" needs? Are there needs that are "normal", "ordinary"?
Are the specific needs of more than a half of the human population somehow a distancing from the norm? Who decides what that norm is?
A special need is something peculiar to subgroup. For example, establishing clinics for prostate cancer is a special need for men.

Special needs are not necessarily linked to gender (unless gender is the only glasses we use to view reality). People with disabilities (subgroup) have special needs and society should take these needs into consideration and make sure not to marginalize them.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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Pseudobabble
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Re: Compassion for Women

Post by Pseudobabble » Sun May 27, 2018 8:52 pm

A group which makes up less than 50% of the total population is a subgroup, by definition. Any need particular to that group is "special" in that it is particular to that group, "special" to it.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

'Some fart freely, some try to hide and silence it. Which one is correct?' - Saegnapha

binocular
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Re: Compassion for Women

Post by binocular » Sun May 27, 2018 9:00 pm

Oh well. Imperialists manage to marginalize some 80% of the population.

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Bundokji
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Re: Compassion for Women

Post by Bundokji » Sun May 27, 2018 9:03 pm

Pseudobabble wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 8:52 pm
A group which makes up less than 50% of the total population is a subgroup, by definition. Any need particular to that group is "special" in that it is particular to that group, "special" to it.
I am not sure if i agree with your definition. Here is the definition of subgroup according to Collins English dictionary:
A subgroup is a group that is part of a larger group
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dicti ... h/subgroup

percentage out of the total demography is irrelevant
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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Pseudobabble
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Re: Compassion for Women

Post by Pseudobabble » Sun May 27, 2018 9:05 pm

Bundokji wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 9:03 pm
Pseudobabble wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 8:52 pm
A group which makes up less than 50% of the total population is a subgroup, by definition. Any need particular to that group is "special" in that it is particular to that group, "special" to it.
I am not sure if i agree with your definition. Here is the definition of subgroup according to Collins English dictionary:
A subgroup is a group that is part of a larger group
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dicti ... h/subgroup

percentage out of the total demography is irrelevant
Yes my apologies, typing not thinking. Any group which is less than 100% of the total population is a subgroup by definition.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

'Some fart freely, some try to hide and silence it. Which one is correct?' - Saegnapha

binocular
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Re: Compassion for Women

Post by binocular » Sun May 27, 2018 9:10 pm

There's a connotation of "subgroup" - 'a group that is not normal, not good, and that society can do without'.

paul
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Re: Compassion for Women

Post by paul » Sun May 27, 2018 9:12 pm

"are you implying how we treat others is irrelevant to Sila "

The Theravada position is simple, help yourself before you can help others. The instruction with metta is to develop loving-kindness towards oneself first. With insight, the practitioner works toward their own deliverance and then imparts that knowledge to others. The Buddha's example of compassion was first to achieve enlightenment, then to dispense the teaching.
"Whatever a teacher should do — seeking the welfare of his disciples, out of sympathy for them — that have I done for you."---MN 19
Last edited by paul on Sun May 27, 2018 9:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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