Developing understanding - whilst avoiding slander, born of contention

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retrofuturist
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Developing understanding - whilst avoiding slander, born of contention

Post by retrofuturist » Fri May 25, 2018 4:15 am

Greetings,

What follows is a partial extract from Snp 4.11, which seems particularly relevant to today's politically charged climate...
"From what arise contentions and disputes, lamentations and sorrows, along with selfishness and conceit, and arrogance along with slander? From where do these various things arise? Come tell me this."

"From being too endeared (to objects and persons) arise contentions and disputes, lamentations and sorrows along with avarice, selfishness and conceit, arrogance and slander. Contentions and disputes are linked with selfishness, and slander is born of contention."

"What are the sources of becoming endeared in the world? What are the sources of whatever passions prevail in the world, of longings and fulfillments that are man's goal (in life)?"

"Desires are the source of becoming endeared (to objects and persons) in the world, also of whatever passions prevail. These are the sources of longings and fulfillments that are man's goal (in life)."
From the added parentheses, it appears the translator is suggesting that "being too endeared", relates to objects and persons, which presumably also included ideologies and those persons who advocate for them - whether religious, or sectarian in origin.

Returning to the sutta, for its conclusion...
Knowing that these (theorists) rely on (mere opinions for their statements) a sage investigates that upon which they rely. Having understood and being free (from theories) he will not dispute with anyone. The wise do not enter into any existence."
Therefore, how do we relate to "objects and persons" in a way that "investigates that upon which they rely"?

How do we "underst[and] and be[...] free (from theories)", whilst not engaging with them inappropriately?

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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rightviewftw
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Re: Developing understanding - whilst avoiding slander, born of contention

Post by rightviewftw » Fri May 25, 2018 7:58 am

i think the short answer is relating to oneself and others with equanimity and understanding the conditions for one's own views and acts and those of others. In particular developing meditation of elements and cultivating the Four Satipatthana to see the 3Cs to condition it. Other meditations too, reflecting like; I am heir to my deeds and so are others, I am subject to death and so are others. Metta practice as well.

Either that or seclusion from other people imo because if there are tendencies to act badly one will act badly if one does not override it with cultivation and development of what is wholesome.
How to Destroy any addiction
How to Meditate: Satipatthana Mahasi
Медитация Сатипаттхана Випассана
How To Develop Factors of Enlightenment & Perceptions
Complete Manual of Insight by Mahasi Sayadaw
Tyranny of Words - An Introduction to General Semantics
Ledi Sayadaw's Anapana Dipani (Samatha) @ ffmt.fr/articles/maitres/LediS/anapana-dipani.ledi-sayadaw.pdf
Dhammapada @ myweb.ncku.edu.tw/~lsn46/tipitaka/sutta/khuddaka/dhammapada/dhp-contrast-reading/dhp-contrast-reading-en/
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binocular
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Re: Developing understanding - whilst avoiding slander, born of contention

Post by binocular » Fri May 25, 2018 4:05 pm

retrofuturist wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 4:15 am
Developing understanding - whilst avoiding slander, born of contention
Understanding is overrated in modern times.
I think understanding (like tolerance) should be the result, not the process.
The process should be to mind one's own business. One of the side-effects of that is understanding or tolerance of others.
Therefore, how do we relate to "objects and persons" in a way that "investigates that upon which they rely"?
How do we "underst[and] and be[...] free (from theories)", whilst not engaging with them inappropriately?
Your question strike me as taken out of the context of the sutta you refer to. This last section is about whether purification of the spirit is the highest, or annihilation.

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