What is the difference between Bhavanirodha and Vibhava?

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SarathW
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What is the difference between Bhavanirodha and Vibhava?

Post by SarathW » Thu May 24, 2018 8:58 am

What is the difference between Bhavanirodha and Vibhava?
This question is raised based on the following discussion.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=31948&start=20#p473090
Last edited by SarathW on Thu May 24, 2018 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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DooDoot
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Re: What is the difference between Bhava Nirodha and Vibhava?

Post by DooDoot » Thu May 24, 2018 9:10 am

Spelling. :twothumbsup:

SarathW
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Re: What is the difference between Bhavanirodha and Vibhava?

Post by SarathW » Thu May 24, 2018 9:36 am

You got me.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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dylanj
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Re: What is the difference between Bhavanirodha and Vibhava?

Post by dylanj » Thu May 24, 2018 9:57 pm

kaccayanagotta sutta

vibhava is nonexistence which is a deluded extreme polar to existence

bhavanirodha is simply the ending of the delusion of existence, it's not the same as nonexistence
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

SarathW
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Re: What is the difference between Bhavanirodha and Vibhava?

Post by SarathW » Fri May 25, 2018 12:00 am

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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DooDoot
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Re: What is the difference between Bhavanirodha and Vibhava?

Post by DooDoot » Fri May 25, 2018 1:45 am

dylanj wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 9:57 pm
kaccayanagotta sutta
kaccayanagotta sutta does not mention vibhava. buddha did not teach in english
dylanj wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 9:57 pm
vibhava is nonexistence which is a deluded extreme polar to existence.
I think vibhava is well-described below:
Kathañca, bhikkhave, atidhāvanti eke? Bhaveneva kho paneke aṭṭīyamānā harāyamānā jigucchamānā vibhavaṃ abhinandanti—yato kira, bho, ayaṃ attā kāyassa bhedā paraṃ maraṇā ucchijjati vinassati na hoti paraṃ maraṇā; etaṃ santaṃ etaṃ paṇītaṃ etaṃ yāthāvanti. Evaṃ kho, bhikkhave, atidhāvanti eke.

How, bhikkhus, do some overreach? Now some are troubled, ashamed, and disgusted by this very same being and they rejoice in (the idea of) not-being, asserting: ‘In as much as this self, good sirs, when the body perishes at death, is annihilated and destroyed and does not exist after death—this is peaceful, this is excellent, this is reality!’ Thus, bhikkhus, do some overreach.

Iti 49
Suppose a dog on a leash was tethered to a strong post or pillar. It would just keeping running and circling around that post or pillar.

Seyyathāpi nāma sā gaddulabaddho daḷhe thambhe vā khile vā upanibaddho, tameva thambhaṃ vā khilaṃ vā anuparidhāvati anuparivattati;

In the same way, those ascetics and brahmins, from fear and disgust with identity, just keep running and circling around identity.

evamevime bhonto samaṇabrāhmaṇā sakkāyabhayā sakkāyaparijegucchā sakkāyaññeva anuparidhāvanti anuparivattanti.

https://suttacentral.net/mn102/en/sujato
:candle:
Bhikkhu Sujato has shown compassion by making Sutta Central. Use the 'cog wheel' to activate Pali-Engish. Kaccayanagotta Sutta does not mention vibhava.
Kaccāna, this world mostly relies on the dual notions of existence and non-existence.

Dvayanissito khvāyaṃ, kaccāna, loko yebhuyyena—atthitañceva natthitañca.

https://suttacentral.net/sn12.15/en/sujato

SarathW
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Re: What is the difference between Bhavanirodha and Vibhava?

Post by SarathW » Fri May 25, 2018 2:44 am

Kaccāna, this world mostly relies on the dual notions of existence and non-existence.

Dvayanissito khvāyaṃ, kaccāna, loko yebhuyyena—atthitañceva natthitañca.
Thanks. Very Interesting!
In Sinhalese we use Attha and Natta to say existence and non-existence.
Is this similar to Atta and Anatta?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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DooDoot
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Re: What is the difference between Bhavanirodha and Vibhava?

Post by DooDoot » Fri May 25, 2018 3:47 am

SarathW wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 2:44 am
Is this similar to Atta and Anatta?
SN 44.10

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