What is the difference between Bhavanirodha and Vibhava?

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SarathW
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What is the difference between Bhavanirodha and Vibhava?

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What is the difference between Bhavanirodha and Vibhava?
This question is raised based on the following discussion.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=31948&start=20#p473090
Last edited by SarathW on Thu May 24, 2018 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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DooDoot
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Re: What is the difference between Bhava Nirodha and Vibhava?

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Spelling. :twothumbsup:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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SarathW
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Re: What is the difference between Bhavanirodha and Vibhava?

Post by SarathW »

You got me.
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dylanj
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Re: What is the difference between Bhavanirodha and Vibhava?

Post by dylanj »

kaccayanagotta sutta

vibhava is nonexistence which is a deluded extreme polar to existence

bhavanirodha is simply the ending of the delusion of existence, it's not the same as nonexistence
Born, become, arisen – made, prepared, short-lived
Bonded by decay and death – a nest for sickness, perishable
Produced by seeking nutriment – not fit to take delight in


Departure from this is peaceful – beyond reasoning and enduring
Unborn, unarisen – free from sorrow and stain
Ceasing of all factors of suffering – stilling of all preparations is bliss
SarathW
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Re: What is the difference between Bhavanirodha and Vibhava?

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“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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DooDoot
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Re: What is the difference between Bhavanirodha and Vibhava?

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dylanj wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 9:57 pm kaccayanagotta sutta
kaccayanagotta sutta does not mention vibhava. buddha did not teach in english
dylanj wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 9:57 pmvibhava is nonexistence which is a deluded extreme polar to existence.
I think vibhava is well-described below:
Kathañca, bhikkhave, atidhāvanti eke? Bhaveneva kho paneke aṭṭīyamānā harāyamānā jigucchamānā vibhavaṃ abhinandanti—yato kira, bho, ayaṃ attā kāyassa bhedā paraṃ maraṇā ucchijjati vinassati na hoti paraṃ maraṇā; etaṃ santaṃ etaṃ paṇītaṃ etaṃ yāthāvanti. Evaṃ kho, bhikkhave, atidhāvanti eke.

How, bhikkhus, do some overreach? Now some are troubled, ashamed, and disgusted by this very same being and they rejoice in (the idea of) not-being, asserting: ‘In as much as this self, good sirs, when the body perishes at death, is annihilated and destroyed and does not exist after death—this is peaceful, this is excellent, this is reality!’ Thus, bhikkhus, do some overreach.

Iti 49
Suppose a dog on a leash was tethered to a strong post or pillar. It would just keeping running and circling around that post or pillar.

Seyyathāpi nāma sā gaddulabaddho daḷhe thambhe vā khile vā upanibaddho, tameva thambhaṃ vā khilaṃ vā anuparidhāvati anuparivattati;

In the same way, those ascetics and brahmins, from fear and disgust with identity, just keep running and circling around identity.

evamevime bhonto samaṇabrāhmaṇā sakkāyabhayā sakkāyaparijegucchā sakkāyaññeva anuparidhāvanti anuparivattanti.

https://suttacentral.net/mn102/en/sujato
:candle:
Bhikkhu Sujato has shown compassion by making Sutta Central. Use the 'cog wheel' to activate Pali-Engish. Kaccayanagotta Sutta does not mention vibhava.
Kaccāna, this world mostly relies on the dual notions of existence and non-existence.

Dvayanissito khvāyaṃ, kaccāna, loko yebhuyyena—atthitañceva natthitañca.

https://suttacentral.net/sn12.15/en/sujato
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
SarathW
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Re: What is the difference between Bhavanirodha and Vibhava?

Post by SarathW »

Kaccāna, this world mostly relies on the dual notions of existence and non-existence.

Dvayanissito khvāyaṃ, kaccāna, loko yebhuyyena—atthitañceva natthitañca.
Thanks. Very Interesting!
In Sinhalese we use Attha and Natta to say existence and non-existence.
Is this similar to Atta and Anatta?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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DooDoot
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Re: What is the difference between Bhavanirodha and Vibhava?

Post by DooDoot »

SarathW wrote: Fri May 25, 2018 2:44 am Is this similar to Atta and Anatta?
SN 44.10
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
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