James Tan wrote: ↑Thu May 24, 2018 7:04 am
From
Form becoming and Formless becoming
Change to
Becoming and Non becoming ,
Can you explain why ?
I provided my personal opinion that:
1. Four Noble Truths was a brief introductory teaching therefore the 2nd noble truth
summaries Dependent Origination in the most
general way. The Four Truths was taught to five beginner ascetics in the Deer Park.
2. Dependent Origination is a detailed teaching therefore the words are often different to reflect the detail. However, some words are not included, such as kamatanha, bhavatanha & vibhava tanha because the Buddha decided to emphasize craving for the six sense contacts.
3. For example, becoming ("bhava") in Dependent Origination must also include "non-becoming" ("vibhava").
4. For example, MN 148 teaches Dependent Origination in a different way, by listing craving as the underlying tendencies of "greed", "hatred" and "ignorance".
5. For example, the quote below describes many types of becoming & non-becoming for form & formlessness:
'I am' is a construing. 'I am this' is a construing. 'I shall be' is a construing. 'I shall not be'... 'I shall be possessed of form'... 'I shall not be possessed of form'... 'I shall be percipient'... 'I shall not be percipient'... 'I shall be neither percipient nor non-percipient' is a construing
MN 140
6. My reading of the suttas finds many different combinations & ways of teaching the same subject.
SarathW wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 12:38 amThere are three kinds of Tanha in Sutta. (Kama, Bhava, Vibhava)
I personally doubt there are these three kinds of Tanha in Sutta (Kama, Bhava, Vibhava). These three Pali terms are found in the following verse, which includes a
mixture of different dhammas:
And this, monks, is the noble truth of the origination of stress: the craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight, relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensual pleasure, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming.
SN 56.11
Therefore, the terms "
kamatanha", "
bhavatanha" and "
vibhava tanha" might represent the
fruition of tanha, delight (attachment) and becoming. They might be better translated as "
sensual craving"; "
to-be-craving" and "
not-to-be-craving" because they might be, in reality, a
mixture of craving, delight & becoming.
SarathW wrote: ↑Wed May 23, 2018 12:38 amPlease explain how these three link to Upadana.
"Delight" ("nandi") is a synonym for "upadana" (attachment) and delight is already included within these three manifestations or fruitions of craving according to what the Lord Buddha taught. To quote:
And this, monks, is the noble truth of the origination of stress: the craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight, relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensual pleasure, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming.
SN 56.11
The "upadana" is highlighted in red color above. MN 38 says: "
Delight is attachment".