James Tan wrote: ↑Thu May 24, 2018 10:51 amVibhava translate as non becoming or extermination becoming ? Why Not Formless becoming ?
It appears the mind can cling to formlessness, which is becoming, as follows:
If there were no kamma ripening in the formless-property, would formless-becoming be discerned?
No, lord.
Thus kamma is the field, consciousness the seed and craving the moisture. The consciousness of living beings hindered by ignorance & fettered by craving is established in/tuned to a refined [formless] property. Thus there is the production of renewed becoming in the future. This is how there is becoming.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
To an uninstructed run-of-the-mill person, touched by experience born of the contact of ignorance, there occur (the thoughts): 'I am,' 'I am thus,' 'I shall be,' 'I shall not be,' 'I shall be possessed of form,' 'I shall be formless,' 'I shall be percipient (conscious),' 'I shall be non-percipient,' or 'I shall be neither percipient nor non-percipient.'
The well-instructed disciple of the noble ones abandons ignorance and gives rise to clear knowing. Owing to the fading of ignorance and the arising of clear knowing, (the thoughts) — 'I am,' 'I am this,' 'I shall be,' 'I shall not be,' 'I shall be possessed of form,' 'I shall be formless,' 'I shall be percipient (conscious),' 'I shall be non-percipient,' and 'I shall be neither percipient nor non-percipient' — do not occur to him.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
James Tan wrote: ↑Thu May 24, 2018 10:51 amFormless is not extermination or annihilation.
Yes; it seems so.
James Tan wrote: ↑Thu May 24, 2018 10:51 amThere is only 3 category of realm of becoming . Kama, Rupa and Arupa becoming. Extermination is not any of the above becoming . Why use extermination or non ?
Excellent question for a new topic. This is why I suggested (unlike SarathW) to not attach to the suttas as a rigid dogma but to reflect upon the suttas with wisdom (
yoniso manasikara).
'
Craving-not-to-be' (
vibhava tanha) is obviously a type of becoming (
bhava) because it is caused by the idea of "I" or "self". The thought: "
I do not want to be this" is obviously a becoming (bhava) that results in suffering (
dukkha).
And what is the stress of not getting what is wanted? In beings subject to birth, the wish arises, 'O, may we not be subject to birth, and may birth not come to us.' But this is not to be achieved by wanting.
MN 141
I think you should start a new topic on the question: "
Is vibhava is a type of bhava in Dependent Origination?"
(bed time)