Please ask any buddhist with ten or twenty years experience in Buddhism how they feel ? Before anyone attain any absorption , what joy do they have ?
Is Buddhism exclusive ?
Re: Is Buddhism exclusive ?
You always gain by giving
Re: Is Buddhism exclusive ?
joy of renunciation, joy of non-regret, first 4 factored jhana, second 4 factored jhana, 3rd four factored jhana, 4th four factored jhanaJames Tan wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 1:49 am..Before anyone attain any absorption , what joy do they have ?
Re: Is Buddhism exclusive ?
Do you actually know people who have been practising for 20 years without feeling positive effects?
I've never met such a person, and I can't imagine why such a person would continue.
Perhaps they missed the suttas on happiness in the present life....
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=14640
Mike
Re: Is Buddhism exclusive ?
Have you ever met someone disrobe after over ten or fifteen years in monkhood ?mikenz66 wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 6:35 amDo you actually know people who have been practising for 20 years without feeling positive effects?
I've never met such a person, and I can't imagine why such a person would continue.
Perhaps they missed the suttas on happiness in the present life....
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=14640
Mike
If they are so happy , no reason to leave the monastic life !
Too many you can find . Or you don't pay attention at all.
You always gain by giving
Re: Is Buddhism exclusive ?
Of course, I know several people who have disrobed, and some who have rerobed after disrobing...
Disrobing is a completely different issue. Your original post seemed to suggest that the majority of practicing Buddhists saw no benefit, which is not my experience.
Mike
Re: Is Buddhism exclusive ?
Nobody said that it is easy, but so it is with most worthwhile pursuits in life. People disrobe for many reasons and there are several reasons for a Bhikkhu's decline and discontentment. However if one lets "difficult" discourage from trying it is going to be hard to achieve anything in life, it is the impossible factor that should be discouraging and even then just because nobody done it before does not in itself mean that it is impossible to do or that one should not try.James Tan wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 7:00 amHave you ever met someone disrobe after over ten or fifteen years in monkhood ?mikenz66 wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 6:35 amDo you actually know people who have been practising for 20 years without feeling positive effects?
I've never met such a person, and I can't imagine why such a person would continue.
Perhaps they missed the suttas on happiness in the present life....
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=14640
Mike
If they are so happy , no reason to leave the monastic life !
Too many you can find . Or you don't pay attention at all.
Clearly there are Bhikkhus who are happy and content.
It is hard to get GM ranked in chess, to place in the olympics, to become world champion, to beat the nosebleed holdem games or to get world class expertise in professional fields, probably >95% of people who want to achieve such goals or merely becoming professionals never make it, does not mean that it is impossible or not worth doing. Does not even mean that it is "exclusive" really because one can argue that talent plays relatively miniscule role relative to work ethic, methodology and commitment. Imo talent will separate the top 5 from the top 50 but the top 500 out of millions can get there by work alone generally speaking.
I don't want to liken the pursuit of Dhamma to pursuit of top ranking in competitive fields because it is different in many ways but my point is that people generally prone to doing things half heartedly and giving up.
Last edited by User1249x on Tue May 22, 2018 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Is Buddhism exclusive ?
I did not say no benefit . Only that if Buddhism preach suffering , what is it that in this world is happiness and joyful about . Basically non at the end .mikenz66 wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 8:53 amOf course, I know several people who have disrobed, and some who have rerobed after disrobing...
Disrobing is a completely different issue. Your original post seemed to suggest that the majority of practicing Buddhists saw no benefit, which is not my experience.
Mike
You always gain by giving
Re: Is Buddhism exclusive ?
Let me ask you a question . Since beginning till now how many years your learning in Buddhism ?User1249x wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 8:55 amNobody said that it is easy, but so it is with most worthwhile pursuits in life. People disrobe for many reasons and there are several reasons for a Bhikkhu's decline and discontentment. However if one lets "difficult" discourage from trying it is going to be hard to achieve anything in life, it is the impossible factor that should be discouraging and even then just because nobody done it before does not in itself mean that it is impossible to do or that one should not try.James Tan wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 7:00 amHave you ever met someone disrobe after over ten or fifteen years in monkhood ?mikenz66 wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 6:35 am
Do you actually know people who have been practising for 20 years without feeling positive effects?
I've never met such a person, and I can't imagine why such a person would continue.
Perhaps they missed the suttas on happiness in the present life....
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=14640
Mike
If they are so happy , no reason to leave the monastic life !
Too many you can find . Or you don't pay attention at all.
Clearly there are Bhikkhus who are happy and content.
It is hard to get GM ranked in chess, to place in the olympics, to become world champion, to beat the nosebleed holdem games or to get world class expertise in professional fields, probably >95% of people who want to achieve such goals or merely becoming professionals never make it, does not mean that it is impossible or not worth doing. Does not even mean that it is "exclusive" really because one can argue that talent plays relatively miniscule role relative to work ethic, methodology and commitment. Imo talent will separate the top 5 from the top 50 but the top 500 out of millions can get there by work alone generally speaking.
How happy are you ?
You always gain by giving
Re: Is Buddhism exclusive ?
With some exceptions (myself included).
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.
Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.
Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.
Re: Is Buddhism exclusive ?
There is no giving up of sensuality without first jhana. The way it works is that one quite secluded starts to attain happiness from meditation, eventually giving up lower pleasure to behold the greater pleasure and tries to attain the superhuman happiness. It is not gloomy as you describe it. In some ways one can be said to be a pleasure seeker, not being satisfied with nothing but the ultimate pleasure.
Re: Is Buddhism exclusive ?
Hi James, Sorry I don't really know what you are trying to say here:
Mike
Previously you said:
Since most of my Buddhist friends seem happy, I'd say, they mostly feel happy.
Mike
Re: Is Buddhism exclusive ?
Good for you , but , as you said , you will have to abandon the sensual pleasure first which is denying worldly happiness.
You always gain by giving
Re: Is Buddhism exclusive ?
I am happy for them . But , their happiness is not lasting that's why I said not really happy .
You always gain by giving
Re: Is Buddhism exclusive ?
The question is whether this happiness of theirs has anything to do with their Buddhist practice.
Or is it that they're happy despite their Buddhist practice?
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!