Is Buddhism exclusive ?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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James Tan
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Is Buddhism exclusive ?

Post by James Tan » Mon May 21, 2018 6:12 am

Greetings ,

Is Buddhism exclusive ? Or all accommodating ?
Tailoring or catering for or available to only a few, selected, restricted , elite and excellent people .




How many Buddha , arahant or even sotapanna can be seen in this world nowadays ?
:reading:

binocular
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Re: Is Buddhism exclusive ?

Post by binocular » Mon May 21, 2018 7:10 am

James Tan wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 6:12 am
Is Buddhism exclusive ? Or all accommodating ?
Tailoring or catering for or available to only a few, selected, restricted , elite and excellent people .
The underlined.

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rightviewftw
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Re: Is Buddhism exclusive ?

Post by rightviewftw » Mon May 21, 2018 7:16 am

christianity is a lie, creationism is impossible, there is no evidence for it and it is not even a natural assumption.
4 Noble Truths are for those who want to pursue the truth and there is nothing but evidence for it.
The teachings are for everyone in as far as a good advice is for everyone.
Some do not follow a wise person but the fault is not with the wise person.

What regards the number of Ariya seen, one probably would not be able to tell if one saw one as they do not walk around with a halo above their heads.

binocular
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Re: Is Buddhism exclusive ?

Post by binocular » Mon May 21, 2018 7:56 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 7:16 am
4 Noble Truths are for those who want to pursue the truth and there is nothing but evidence for it.
The teachings are for everyone in as far as a good advice is for everyone.
Some do not follow a wise person but the fault is not with the wise person.
And people from other religions say the same kind of things about their religions: That The Truth is there for all to see, that there's evidence for it (even that it's self-evident), that the teachings are for everyone, etc.

It's because in their apologetics, different religions present essentially the same religious epistemology (especially in regard to conversion), that I conclude that religions are exclusive. Because this is the only conclusion that can explain how come people can apply the same religious epistemology, and yet arrive at vastly different results and conclusions.

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rightviewftw
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Re: Is Buddhism exclusive ?

Post by rightviewftw » Mon May 21, 2018 8:03 am

binocular wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 7:56 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 7:16 am
4 Noble Truths are for those who want to pursue the truth and there is nothing but evidence for it.
The teachings are for everyone in as far as a good advice is for everyone.
Some do not follow a wise person but the fault is not with the wise person.
And people from other religions say the same kind of things about their religions: That The Truth is there for all to see, that there's evidence for it (even that it's self-evident), that the teachings are for everyone, etc.
They may say such things but it does not make it true does it. Buddhism is like the only doctrine i know that goes well with quantum science and information theory.

Also other teachings may be true in other doctrines but i know no doctrine that is as true in it's entirety and as comperhensive as the 4NTs.

James Tan
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Re: Is Buddhism exclusive ?

Post by James Tan » Mon May 21, 2018 8:13 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 7:16 am
christianity is a lie, creationism is impossible, there is no evidence for it and it is not even a natural assumption.
4 Noble Truths are for those who want to pursue the truth and there is nothing but evidence for it.
The teachings are for everyone in as far as a good advice is for everyone.
Some do not follow a wise person but the fault is not with the wise person.

What regards the number of Ariya seen, one probably would not be able to tell if one saw one as they do not walk around with a halo above their heads.
Let us see not other religion but Buddhism itself , in spite of all the outstanding, excellent buddhists either great scholars or adept monks whom are well observed in precepts and even jhanic accomplished and practicing for twenty or thirty over years after delving into the dhamma continuously relentlessly many many years , you can't arrive at even sotapanna !
What is the chance for illiterate and lower IQ ?
All accommodating is but consolation .

In the Buddha's time , claiming stream entry or arahantship looks quite common , why now is a big fuss ?
:reading:

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rightviewftw
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Re: Is Buddhism exclusive ?

Post by rightviewftw » Mon May 21, 2018 8:25 am

James Tan wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 8:13 am
excellent buddhists either great scholars or adept monks whom are well observed in precepts and even jhanic accomplished and practicing for twenty or thirty over years after delving into the dhamma continuously relentlessly many many years , you can't arrive at even sotapanna !
those are only your assumptions
James Tan wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 8:13 am
What is the chance for illiterate and lower IQ ?
All accommodating is but consolation .
In the Buddha's time , claiming stream entry or arahantship looks quite common , why now is a big fuss ?
It is not about chance, it is not a lottery.
Nobody is entitled to the highest attainments, not all humans will develop the Four Satipatthana and the Factors of Enlightenment in this life nor will any animal. As i look at it if not in this life then one can finish it in the next life basically.

You can roll with a teaching that is free for all but it won't lead to destruction of craving.
This Dhamma is for one who is modest, not for one who is self-aggrandizing. This Dhamma is for one who is content, not for one who is discontent. This Dhamma is for one who is reclusive, not for one who is entangled. This Dhamma is for one whose persistence is aroused, not for one who is lazy. This Dhamma is for one whose mindfulness is established, not for one whose mindfulness is confused. This Dhamma is for one whose mind is centered, not for one whose mind is uncentered. This Dhamma is for one endowed with discernment, not for one whose discernment is weak. This Dhamma is for one who enjoys non-objectification, who delights in non-objectification, not for one who enjoys & delights in objectification.
Last edited by rightviewftw on Mon May 21, 2018 8:49 am, edited 4 times in total.

Dinsdale
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Re: Is Buddhism exclusive ?

Post by Dinsdale » Mon May 21, 2018 8:41 am

James Tan wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 6:12 am
Tailoring or catering for or available to only a few, selected, restricted , elite and excellent people .
The Dhamma Wheel membership does suggest that. :tongue:
Buddha save me from new-agers!

James Tan
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Re: Is Buddhism exclusive ?

Post by James Tan » Mon May 21, 2018 9:45 am

Dinsdale wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 8:41 am
James Tan wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 6:12 am
Tailoring or catering for or available to only a few, selected, restricted , elite and excellent people .
The Dhamma Wheel membership does suggest that. :tongue:

Oh my God !

:popcorn:
:reading:

Saengnapha
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Re: Is Buddhism exclusive ?

Post by Saengnapha » Mon May 21, 2018 10:28 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 8:03 am
binocular wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 7:56 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 7:16 am
4 Noble Truths are for those who want to pursue the truth and there is nothing but evidence for it.
The teachings are for everyone in as far as a good advice is for everyone.
Some do not follow a wise person but the fault is not with the wise person.
And people from other religions say the same kind of things about their religions: That The Truth is there for all to see, that there's evidence for it (even that it's self-evident), that the teachings are for everyone, etc.
They may say such things but it does not make it true does it. Buddhism is like the only doctrine i know that goes well with quantum science and information theory.

Also other teachings may be true in other doctrines but i know no doctrine that is as true in it's entirety and as comperhensive as the 4NTs.
The 4NT is only an outline, a statement of sorts. It needs elaboration, study, and interpretation. There is no religion that does not need elaboration, study, and interpretation because no doctrine can contain Truth. So simply, the Truth is NOT there for all to see. If it were, people everywhere would be acting differently.

Your statements are only beliefs. They have no basis in Truth.

Saengnapha
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Re: Is Buddhism exclusive ?

Post by Saengnapha » Mon May 21, 2018 10:34 am

James Tan wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 8:13 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 7:16 am
christianity is a lie, creationism is impossible, there is no evidence for it and it is not even a natural assumption.
4 Noble Truths are for those who want to pursue the truth and there is nothing but evidence for it.
The teachings are for everyone in as far as a good advice is for everyone.
Some do not follow a wise person but the fault is not with the wise person.

What regards the number of Ariya seen, one probably would not be able to tell if one saw one as they do not walk around with a halo above their heads.
Let us see not other religion but Buddhism itself , in spite of all the outstanding, excellent buddhists either great scholars or adept monks whom are well observed in precepts and even jhanic accomplished and practicing for twenty or thirty over years after delving into the dhamma continuously relentlessly many many years , you can't arrive at even sotapanna !
What is the chance for illiterate and lower IQ ?
All accommodating is but consolation .

In the Buddha's time , claiming stream entry or arahantship looks quite common , why now is a big fuss ?
Most people that use sound logic would probably tell you that you have no way of knowing what it was like back in the Buddha's time. Most scholar's argue even about the authenticity of many suttas and treatises, not to mention the alterations that take place over thousands of years. Why believe in this? It's not a necessary step for studying Buddhism.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Is Buddhism exclusive ?

Post by retrofuturist » Mon May 21, 2018 10:46 am

Greetings James,
James Tan wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 6:12 am
Is Buddhism exclusive ? Or all accommodating ?
Tailoring or catering for or available to only a few, selected, restricted , elite and excellent people .
I don't think it's truly any of the above.

It's exclusive only to the extent that certain teachings will be beyond the capability of certain individuals to comprehend.
It's all-encompassing only to the extent that there's teachings for virtually anyone, covering a wide spectrum of intellects and temperaments.
It's tailored only to the extent that certain individuals or schools tend to emphasis certain aspects over others.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

James Tan
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Re: Is Buddhism exclusive ?

Post by James Tan » Mon May 21, 2018 11:08 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 10:46 am
Greetings James,
James Tan wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 6:12 am
Is Buddhism exclusive ? Or all accommodating ?
Tailoring or catering for or available to only a few, selected, restricted , elite and excellent people .
I don't think it's truly any of the above.

It's exclusive only to the extent that certain teachings will be beyond the capability of certain individuals to comprehend.
It's all-encompassing only to the extent that there's teachings for virtually anyone, covering a wide spectrum of intellects and temperaments.
It's tailored only to the extent that certain individuals or schools tend to emphasis certain aspects over others.

Metta,
Paul. :)
I think if anyone ever learn Advanced Mathematics before will understand it is Not really for any guys to be able to perform the equation solving in ~

Calculus and analysis.
Geometry and topology.
Combinatorics.
Number theory.
Dynamical systems and differential equations.
Mathematical physics.
Last edited by James Tan on Mon May 21, 2018 11:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
:reading:

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rightviewftw
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Re: Is Buddhism exclusive ?

Post by rightviewftw » Mon May 21, 2018 11:08 am

Saengnapha wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 10:28 am
The 4NT is only an outline, a statement of sorts. It needs elaboration, study, and interpretation. There is no religion that does not need elaboration, study, and interpretation because no doctrine can contain Truth. So simply, the Truth is NOT there for all to see. If it were, people everywhere would be acting differently.

Your statements are only beliefs. They have no basis in Truth.
I think you are operating with different meanings for the words truth and religion,
i'll leave it at that.
Last edited by rightviewftw on Mon May 21, 2018 11:40 am, edited 7 times in total.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Is Buddhism exclusive ?

Post by retrofuturist » Mon May 21, 2018 11:10 am

Greetings James,

Agreed, and Advanced Mathematics and Buddhism are alike in the sense that the majority will not even bother to embark upon learning them, because there's too much effort involved.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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