If you become a Sotapanna will you know that?

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SarathW
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If you become a Sotapanna will you know that?

Post by SarathW » Fri May 11, 2018 7:55 am

If you become a Sotapanna will you know that?

In the following video, (Sinhala Language) Ven Suddasana said that he is not a Sotapanna.
His reason given was that he has not eliminated the Bhava Sankahara yet.
He also said that he has no doubt about the path that is the only way to Nibbna.
In evaluation, he has eliminated all three fetters.
I have listened to many of videos of this monk.
With the little knowledge I have, I thought his comprehension of Vinaya, Sutta, and Abhidhamma is excellent.
However, his statement raised few questions.
1)It is frustrating that even a prominent monk such as him is not a Sotapanna yet.
2) Is he breaking the Vinaya rule by saying that he is not a Sotapanna?
3) What is the logic behind that he has not eliminated Bhava Sankhara as yet?

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

James Tan
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Re: If you become a Sotapanna will you know that?

Post by James Tan » Fri May 11, 2018 8:45 am

Did he explains what is bhava meant ?
:reading:

SarathW
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Re: If you become a Sotapanna will you know that?

Post by SarathW » Fri May 11, 2018 9:02 am

No. Because it was not the main topic.
This came as a side talk.
He was just trying to convince people to follow the path.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: If you become a Sotapanna will you know that?

Post by JamesTheGiant » Fri May 11, 2018 9:53 am

I think Bhava Sankhara is, like, the attachment to life, a sort of clinging to existence, that upon death leads to rebirth.

SarathW
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Re: If you become a Sotapanna will you know that?

Post by SarathW » Fri May 11, 2018 10:06 am

Agree.
My question is what is it got to do with becoming a Sotapanna.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

thepea
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Re: If you become a Sotapanna will you know that?

Post by thepea » Fri May 11, 2018 11:47 am

Perhaps he was speaking in more of an ultimate reality than this apparent reality. Ultimately he is not a sotapanna.

SarathW
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Re: If you become a Sotapanna will you know that?

Post by SarathW » Fri May 11, 2018 11:59 am

Perhaps he was speaking in more of an ultimate reality
No.
He said if become a Sotapanna, becoming an Angami is just a matter of days.
This reminds me what Buddha said about a Sotapanna.
He equates Sotapanna to a dust in his fingertip in comparison to earth.
That means becoming Sotapanna is a significant event than what we think.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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seeker242
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Re: If you become a Sotapanna will you know that?

Post by seeker242 » Fri May 11, 2018 12:02 pm

SarathW wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 7:55 am
1)It is frustrating that even a prominent monk such as him is not a Sotapanna yet.
Why would another persons practice be frustrating to one's own?

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Zom
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Re: If you become a Sotapanna will you know that?

Post by Zom » Fri May 11, 2018 12:32 pm

If you become a Sotapanna will you know that?
Perhaps, no, or at least, not in all cases. The reason is "Dhamma Mirror" teaching given by the Buddha for people to check if they are stream-winners. If you know that for sure at the moment of attaining - what is the need for this "mirror"? 8-)

Garrib
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Re: If you become a Sotapanna will you know that?

Post by Garrib » Fri May 11, 2018 4:45 pm

Zom wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 12:32 pm
If you become a Sotapanna will you know that?
Perhaps, no, or at least, not in all cases. The reason is "Dhamma Mirror" teaching given by the Buddha for people to check if they are stream-winners. If you know that for sure at the moment of attaining - what is the need for this "mirror"? 8-)
Good point

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Re: If you become a Sotapanna will you know that?

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Fri May 11, 2018 6:45 pm

when ever someone in the canon attains stream entry, their dhamma eye opens and they understand: whatever is of a nature to arise, so it is of a nature to cease'. i dont think you could somehow attain it and not notice
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cappuccino
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Re: If you become a Sotapanna will you know that?

Post by cappuccino » Fri May 11, 2018 6:46 pm

Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 6:45 pm
when ever someone in the canon attains stream entry, their dhamma eye opens and they understand: whatever is of a nature to arise, so it is of a nature to cease'. i dont think you could somehow attain it and not notice
agree

2600htz
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Re: If you become a Sotapanna will you know that?

Post by 2600htz » Fri May 11, 2018 9:46 pm

Hello:

I think that by "Bhava Sankhara", he is saying that he still has the fetter of "identity view" (sakkāya-diṭṭhi).
So he must be someone with the idea that in order to remove that fetter it is not enough intellectual knowledge or being virtuous, but deep insight into reality of dependent arising (paṭiccasamuppāda).

Regards.

SarathW
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Re: If you become a Sotapanna will you know that?

Post by SarathW » Fri May 11, 2018 10:41 pm

Why would another person practice be frustrating to one's own?
Isn't it frustrating we can't find even a Sotapanna let alone Arahant?
As lay people, we look up to our Mentors.
It is much easier to believe that you can land on the moon when we know that few people already been there.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

SarathW
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Re: If you become a Sotapanna will you know that?

Post by SarathW » Fri May 11, 2018 10:42 pm

deep insight into reality of dependent arising (paṭiccasamuppāda).
Good point.
But should we have a deep insight into dependent origination to attain Sotapanna?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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