Greed is an antidote to poverty .

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
chownah
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Re: Greed is an antidote to poverty .

Post by chownah » Thu May 10, 2018 2:14 am

binocular wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 11:21 am
chownah wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 10:31 am
binocular wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 9:09 am

Humans don't seem to be a species which would by their nature practice solidarity.

Secondly, it's easier to get a person out of poverty than it is to get the poverty out of their heads. It's not clear that the people who are currently poor would behave wisely once they would come into material wellbeing.



How do you propose to do this, to carry out such a replacement?
Greedy people don't blame greed for poverty but the fact is that in this day and age that there is enough productive capacity to easily (very easily) produce everything that everyone needs and it is only greed which hordes and controls wealth which is keeping everyone's needs from being met.....to argue otherwise only admits of ones lack of knowledge of the level of productivity available in this day and age.
I'm asking you about the logistics of this change.
Robin Hood?
It's a personal thing. If one studies ones own intentions one might discover greed and find a way to replace it with compassion. It can be done but not everyone is aware of the fact that it can be done. I am not saying that there is any greed in you whatever and I am not saying that you should try to look carefully to see if there is any greed in you whatever and I am not saying anything about the compassion you have and I am not saying that you should look carefully to see how much compassion you have.....and especially I am not trying to tell you how to do anything.
chownah

binocular
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Re: Greed is an antidote to poverty .

Post by binocular » Thu May 10, 2018 9:40 am

chownah wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 2:14 am
It's a personal thing. If one studies ones own intentions one might discover greed and find a way to replace it with compassion. It can be done but not everyone is aware of the fact that it can be done. I am not saying that there is any greed in you whatever and I am not saying that you should try to look carefully to see if there is any greed in you whatever and I am not saying anything about the compassion you have and I am not saying that you should look carefully to see how much compassion you have.....and especially I am not trying to tell you how to do anything.
So the world's going to hell, and you're not the man with a plan.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

binocular
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Re: Greed is an antidote to poverty .

Post by binocular » Thu May 10, 2018 9:44 am

dylanj wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 11:41 pm
This view relies on materialist causality as opposed to kammic causality. In fact it is wrong, the result of greed is not increase of wealth & possessions. You must understand that innumerable lives are contributing to the ripening of kamma & the cause-effect process that yields a state of poverty or prosperity is not readily available in a short span of time.
Excellent point!

Discussions of poverty often assume a secular, non-rebirth, and mostly non-kammic framework. Such that it is assumed that the poor are innocent victims of the more powerful, and that they have in no significant way contributed to their poor situation. From the perspective of kamma and rebirth, such a framework is, of course, highly problematic.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

James Tan
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Re: Greed is an antidote to poverty .

Post by James Tan » Thu May 10, 2018 10:24 am

dylanj wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 11:41 pm
This view relies on materialist causality as opposed to kammic causality. In fact it is wrong, the result of greed is not increase of wealth & possessions. You must understand that innumerable lives are contributing to the ripening of kamma & the cause-effect process that yields a state of poverty or prosperity is not readily available in a short span of time.

If greed were the real cause of wealth then everyone would be wealthy :), but we can see that those who wish for wealth sometimes gain it, sometimes they don't - I think most probably it varies according to their kamma, & I think that whosoever attains wealth with greed in their heart would attain it to an even greater magnitude with the attenuation of that greed.
Now, can you find anyone whom reduce his/her greed and therefore attain greater wealth ?!
That's rather difficult to prove .
:reading:

binocular
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Re: Greed is an antidote to poverty .

Post by binocular » Thu May 10, 2018 10:42 am

James Tan wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 10:24 am
Now, can you find anyone whom reduce his/her greed and therefore attain greater wealth ?!
As a matter of fact, to get anything done, one has to reduce one's greed and calm one's mind. Otherwise, it's not possible to do much actual work.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

James Tan
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Re: Greed is an antidote to poverty .

Post by James Tan » Thu May 10, 2018 10:50 am

binocular wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 10:42 am
James Tan wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 10:24 am
Now, can you find anyone whom reduce his/her greed and therefore attain greater wealth ?!
As a matter of fact, to get anything done, one has to reduce one's greed and calm one's mind. Otherwise, it's not possible to do much actual work.
That's performing a task but not necessary can attain greater wealth ?!
When we said greeds, we are talking about continuous desire across one's whole life and not merely when doing a certain jobs !
:reading:

chownah
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Re: Greed is an antidote to poverty .

Post by chownah » Thu May 10, 2018 12:16 pm

James Tan wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 10:50 am

When we said greeds, we are talking about continuous desire across one's whole life and not merely when doing a certain jobs !
I don't think "we" actually stated what "we" are meaning when "we" talk about greed. It seems clear to me that "we" are not all using the same definition for greed.
chownah

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lyndon taylor
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Re: Greed is an antidote to poverty .

Post by lyndon taylor » Thu May 10, 2018 1:05 pm

Relatively rich or well off people love to blame the poor for all their problems, its really a lot of BS. The poor are generally trying their best to succeed, they're just not being given a fair playing field, and a lot of the blame for that lies with the rich and their greed.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

James Tan
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Re: Greed is an antidote to poverty .

Post by James Tan » Thu May 10, 2018 2:29 pm

chownah wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 12:16 pm
James Tan wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 10:50 am

When we said greeds, we are talking about continuous desire across one's whole life and not merely when doing a certain jobs !
I don't think "we" actually stated what "we" are meaning when "we" talk about greed. It seems clear to me that "we" are not all using the same definition for greed.
chownah
Then I guess you don't know which greed I referred to ?
:reading:

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Re: Greed is an antidote to poverty .

Post by DNS » Thu May 10, 2018 3:53 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 1:05 pm
Relatively rich or well off people love to blame the poor for all their problems, its really a lot of BS.
I suppose it's possible that there might be a few who do that, but I've never seen that. The well off people I know never blame the poor and have much compassion for them. Which problems of the rich and what blame given to the poor have you seen or heard about?

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Re: Greed is an antidote to poverty .

Post by DNS » Thu May 10, 2018 4:00 pm

James Tan wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 10:24 am
dylanj wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 11:41 pm
If greed were the real cause of wealth then everyone would be wealthy :), but we can see that those who wish for wealth sometimes gain it, sometimes they don't - I think most probably it varies according to their kamma, & I think that whosoever attains wealth with greed in their heart would attain it to an even greater magnitude with the attenuation of that greed.
Now, can you find anyone whom reduce his/her greed and therefore attain greater wealth ?!
That's rather difficult to prove .
A businessman who only thinks of his own interests and the highest profits is soon to be out of business. A businessman who lowers his prices to only small profit margins, listens to his customers, interacts with them, has altruism to understand what they want and need, is soon to have a successful business.

I understand your likely point that the original impetus to open a business might be on some desire which some might call "greed" but as I noted earlier any endeavor could be called "greed" even getting out of bed and eating food; the desire or greed to survive. A better definition to use might be when the ambition becomes too strong that one harms oneself and others. And then it actually becomes counter-productive and un-profitable anyway.

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lyndon taylor
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Re: Greed is an antidote to poverty .

Post by lyndon taylor » Thu May 10, 2018 4:11 pm

DNS wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 3:53 pm
lyndon taylor wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 1:05 pm
Relatively rich or well off people love to blame the poor for all their problems, its really a lot of BS.
I suppose it's possible that there might be a few who do that, but I've never seen that. The well off people I know never blame the poor and have much compassion for them. Which problems of the rich and what blame given to the poor have you seen or heard about?
Must be nice to live in a vacuum!!
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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DNS
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Re: Greed is an antidote to poverty .

Post by DNS » Thu May 10, 2018 4:16 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 4:11 pm
DNS wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 3:53 pm
lyndon taylor wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 1:05 pm
Relatively rich or well off people love to blame the poor for all their problems, its really a lot of BS.
I suppose it's possible that there might be a few who do that, but I've never seen that. The well off people I know never blame the poor and have much compassion for them. Which problems of the rich and what blame given to the poor have you seen or heard about?
Must be nice to live in a vacuum!!
:lol: That doesn't answer my questions. If it's so easy to know the answer, it should be easy to write it.

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SDC
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Re: Greed is an antidote to poverty .

Post by SDC » Thu May 10, 2018 4:36 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 1:05 pm
Relatively rich or well off people love to blame the poor for all their problems, its really a lot of BS. The poor are generally trying their best to succeed, they're just not being given a fair playing field, and a lot of the blame for that lies with the rich and their greed.
All rich people? All poor people? You sound like someone who watches from afar and has no experience with either the rich or the poor. I do, and rarely do I see either side fit your sweeping generalizations.

Sounds like you are the one in your own little vacuum.

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lyndon taylor
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Re: Greed is an antidote to poverty .

Post by lyndon taylor » Thu May 10, 2018 5:23 pm

If I had a dime for every time I'd heard a conservative blame the poor for their own problems, I'd have a sizable sum, Ben Carson is a good example of this BS, Paul Ryan, the list goes on and on. If someone claims they never heard it they're probably a Conservative stretching the truth.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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