Greed is an antidote to poverty .

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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binocular
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Re: Greed is an antidote to poverty .

Post by binocular » Tue May 08, 2018 8:55 am

chownah wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 4:37 am
I was thinking more along the lines that if greed was replaced with compassion then there would be no poverty.......it is greed that creates poverty in this day and age in that the means of production are way more than adequate to elimate poverty and it is greed which hoards wealth and thus creates poverty.
Two people could be doing the same work, strive for the same results, but with completely different motivations. That means that we cannot correctly ascertain a person's intentions based on what we see them do.

Secondly, a person could indeed be acting out of greed when they act in a way to obtain greater material wellbeing; but this doesn't necessarily mean that they are acting out of greed for greater material wellbeing, for they could be acting out of greed for status, safety, to please their parents, out of habit ...

This is why generally blaming greed misses the point and is ineffective.
it is greed that creates poverty in this day and age
It's not clear that this is the case. Humans are a competitive and classist species. Humans don't simply want that everyone would be equal or the same. Humans prefer differences. Humans thrive on there being differences in socioeconomic status, in education, in looks, in health, etc.

chownah
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Re: Greed is an antidote to poverty .

Post by chownah » Tue May 08, 2018 11:31 am

binocular wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 8:55 am
chownah wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 4:37 am
I was thinking more along the lines that if greed was replaced with compassion then there would be no poverty.......it is greed that creates poverty in this day and age in that the means of production are way more than adequate to elimate poverty and it is greed which hoards wealth and thus creates poverty.
Two people could be doing the same work, strive for the same results, but with completely different motivations. That means that we cannot correctly ascertain a person's intentions based on what we see them do.

Secondly, a person could indeed be acting out of greed when they act in a way to obtain greater material wellbeing; but this doesn't necessarily mean that they are acting out of greed for greater material wellbeing, for they could be acting out of greed for status, safety, to please their parents, out of habit ...

This is why generally blaming greed misses the point and is ineffective.
it is greed that creates poverty in this day and age
It's not clear that this is the case. Humans are a competitive and classist species. Humans don't simply want that everyone would be equal or the same. Humans prefer differences. Humans thrive on there being differences in socioeconomic status, in education, in looks, in health, etc.
Just about everything you say in your post supports the idea that it is greed that creates poverty in this day and age. You list some of the various kinds of greed....and it is clear that they each contribute in their own way. Yet you say that it is not clear to you....it is clear to me.
I think you have made an error in saying that blaming greed is ineffective....in that what I said was that if greed was replaced with compassion that poverty would disappear and I think that if one really considers how radically different the world would be if greed was replaced with compassion it is clear that it is very likely if not a certainty that poverty would disappear.....I think what you meant to say is that replacing greed with compassion is not realistic. If you think my post was offering a practical way to eliminate poverty then I think you are mistaken....what I posted was not a practical method to to that and I did not intend it to be one.
chownah

auto
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Re: Greed is an antidote to poverty .

Post by auto » Tue May 08, 2018 11:41 am

James Tan wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 4:00 pm
Greetings ,

Buddha's teaching regards greed as something unwholesome and wanted to eliminate it.
But the whole world advancement depends on it as a kind of prime mover without which the society will not move forward .
So, greeds seems to be a necessary source for one to aspire for a better life and future and to get rid of poverty .
What do you think if all buddhist were to abandon greed and therefore remains in destitution and stagnation ?!
greed is root of unwholesome
non-greed is root of wholesome
greed is violence, killing etc
non greed is abstinence

ignorance falls away, true knowldge arises, you get one with the view, suffereing ends.
---
poverty and being rich are on a unwholesome spectrum. Since poverty is not abstinence if it is forced on you you should go even more discipline and abstince, that means if you poor you need stop consuming meaniglessly and stop wasting wahtever you have left but do discipline..,

to get a taste of riches while being poor, you can arose feelign of being rich without being rich.

SarathW
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Re: Greed is an antidote to poverty .

Post by SarathW » Tue May 08, 2018 12:19 pm

Read the links I provided earlier.
There is not enough evidence to support their claims.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

justindesilva
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Re: Greed is an antidote to poverty .

Post by justindesilva » Tue May 08, 2018 1:41 pm

SarathW wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 12:19 pm
Read the links I provided earlier.
There is not enough evidence to support their claims.
Lord budda identified that the lay people can live with greed , provided they live as close to damma. The Sigalovada sutta and parabava sutta explain the consequences if a person exceeds the limits of damma and the way to live with damma. ( These two popular suttas are available on line).

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binocular
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Re: Greed is an antidote to poverty .

Post by binocular » Tue May 08, 2018 4:35 pm

SarathW wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 12:19 pm
Read the links I provided earlier.
There is not enough evidence to support their claims.
I googled "homeless in Japan" and got more than 9 million hits.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/ ... vHMbaSFOUk

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-i ... no-beggars

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binocular
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Re: Greed is an antidote to poverty .

Post by binocular » Tue May 08, 2018 5:10 pm

chownah wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 11:31 am
I think you have made an error in saying that blaming greed is ineffective....
People have been blaming greed for millennnia. And it only made it stronger, apparently!
in that what I said was that if greed was replaced with compassion that poverty would disappear and I think that if one really considers how radically different the world would be if greed was replaced with compassion it is clear that it is very likely if not a certainty that poverty would disappear.....
In what universe can such a replacement be made?
I think what you meant to say is that replacing greed with compassion is not realistic.
Do you think it is realistic?
If you think my post was offering a practical way to eliminate poverty then I think you are mistaken....what I posted was not a practical method to to that and I did not intend it to be one.
Great! Just what the world needs! Another Lucy who doesn't pretend to have a solution to the problem, but who is merely pointing out the problem!

What is the term that denotes the spiritual equivalent of a pencil pusher?

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Grigoris
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Re: Greed is an antidote to poverty .

Post by Grigoris » Tue May 08, 2018 8:16 pm

binocular wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 8:55 am
It's not clear that this is the case. Humans are a competitive and classist species. Humans don't simply want that everyone would be equal or the same. Humans prefer differences. Humans thrive on there being differences in socioeconomic status, in education, in looks, in health, etc.
Says you...
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

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binocular
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Re: Greed is an antidote to poverty .

Post by binocular » Tue May 08, 2018 8:37 pm

grigoris wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 8:16 pm
binocular wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 8:55 am
It's not clear that this is the case. Humans are a competitive and classist species. Humans don't simply want that everyone would be equal or the same. Humans prefer differences. Humans thrive on there being differences in socioeconomic status, in education, in looks, in health, etc.
Says you...
Says you, of all people ...

chownah
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Re: Greed is an antidote to poverty .

Post by chownah » Wed May 09, 2018 3:42 am

binocular wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 5:10 pm
chownah wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 11:31 am
I think you have made an error in saying that blaming greed is ineffective....
People have been blaming greed for millennnia. And it only made it stronger, apparently!
Greedy people don't blame greed for poverty but the fact is that in this day and age that there is enough productive capacity to easily (very easily) produce everything that everyone needs and it is only greed which hordes and control wealth which is keeping everyone's needs from being met.....to argue otherwise only admits of ones lack of knowledge of the level of productivity available in this day and age.

Also, there is another way that greed creates poverty. In this day and age the greedy conrol everything so that while in the past a poor person could find some unutilized resource around which to provide for an existence this is no longer the case. Poor people by and large have no options as the greedy already control or have laid waste to the options. Consider clean water......because the greedy control vast tracts of land and the infrastructure built upon it and since this was done mostly in a way to increase the control that the greedy have and without much concern for the needs of the poor, the poor in many places in the world have little to no access to clean water. A clear example of this was in a city in a south american country (forget which one) hired a major western company (I think it was nestle but I'm not sure on that) to create a modern water supply system the company did that and then started charging for the water something which was a burden on the poor people and to top it all off they had the gov't PASS A LAW MAKING ILLEGAL TO CAPTURE AND STORE RAIN WATER ALONG WITH FINES FOR ANYONE DOING SO.

If greed in the world was replaced with compassion then poverty would disappear.
chownah

chownah
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Re: Greed is an antidote to poverty .

Post by chownah » Wed May 09, 2018 5:53 am

If anyone is interested the water issue I mentioned above was in bolivia and the company was bechtel.....check it out.
I mistkenly mentioned nestle as the company but it was not involved....it was however involved in another issue.....they used to provide free newborn milk substitute to third world women with newborn babies for a couple weeks or so (can't remember the exact length of time) which was enough time for the women's breasts to stop making milk....and then they started charging for it.........forcing the women to buy their product and robbing them of the ability to provide a much better natural alternative (natural breast milk) and forcing them (basically addicting them) to buy an inferior substitute.
You could also read up on large international corporations buying up the best land around the world and disposessing the poor inhabitants who had lived off of that land since time memorial but didn't have papers showing ownership....or those companies fomenting rebellion and installing a dictator of their choice who would change the laws enabling them to steal the land one way or the other.
Greed....causing poverty.....
chownah

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binocular
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Re: Greed is an antidote to poverty .

Post by binocular » Wed May 09, 2018 9:09 am

chownah wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 3:42 am
Greedy people don't blame greed for poverty but the fact is that in this day and age that there is enough productive capacity to easily (very easily) produce everything that everyone needs and it is only greed which hordes and control wealth which is keeping everyone's needs from being met.....to argue otherwise only admits of ones lack of knowledge of the level of productivity available in this day and age.
Humans don't seem to be a species which would by their nature practice solidarity.

Secondly, it's easier to get a person out of poverty than it is to get the poverty out of their heads. It's not clear that the people who are currently poor would behave wisely once they would come into material wellbeing.

If greed in the world was replaced with compassion then poverty would disappear.
How do you propose to do this, to carry out such a replacement?

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Grigoris
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Re: Greed is an antidote to poverty .

Post by Grigoris » Wed May 09, 2018 10:20 am

binocular wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 8:37 pm
Says you, of all people ...
I'm not even going to pretend I know what you mean by this statement.

My point is that what you are saying in this thread is just your opinion and nothing else.
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

chownah
Posts: 7329
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Greed is an antidote to poverty .

Post by chownah » Wed May 09, 2018 10:31 am

binocular wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 9:09 am
chownah wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 3:42 am
Greedy people don't blame greed for poverty but the fact is that in this day and age that there is enough productive capacity to easily (very easily) produce everything that everyone needs and it is only greed which hordes and control wealth which is keeping everyone's needs from being met.....to argue otherwise only admits of ones lack of knowledge of the level of productivity available in this day and age.
Humans don't seem to be a species which would by their nature practice solidarity.

Secondly, it's easier to get a person out of poverty than it is to get the poverty out of their heads. It's not clear that the people who are currently poor would behave wisely once they would come into material wellbeing.

If greed in the world was replaced with compassion then poverty would disappear.
How do you propose to do this, to carry out such a replacement?
Greedy people don't blame greed for poverty but the fact is that in this day and age that there is enough productive capacity to easily (very easily) produce everything that everyone needs and it is only greed which hordes and controls wealth which is keeping everyone's needs from being met.....to argue otherwise only admits of ones lack of knowledge of the level of productivity available in this day and age.
chownah

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binocular
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Re: Greed is an antidote to poverty .

Post by binocular » Wed May 09, 2018 11:21 am

chownah wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 10:31 am
binocular wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 9:09 am
chownah wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 3:42 am
Greedy people don't blame greed for poverty but the fact is that in this day and age that there is enough productive capacity to easily (very easily) produce everything that everyone needs and it is only greed which hordes and control wealth which is keeping everyone's needs from being met.....to argue otherwise only admits of ones lack of knowledge of the level of productivity available in this day and age.
Humans don't seem to be a species which would by their nature practice solidarity.

Secondly, it's easier to get a person out of poverty than it is to get the poverty out of their heads. It's not clear that the people who are currently poor would behave wisely once they would come into material wellbeing.

If greed in the world was replaced with compassion then poverty would disappear.
How do you propose to do this, to carry out such a replacement?
Greedy people don't blame greed for poverty but the fact is that in this day and age that there is enough productive capacity to easily (very easily) produce everything that everyone needs and it is only greed which hordes and controls wealth which is keeping everyone's needs from being met.....to argue otherwise only admits of ones lack of knowledge of the level of productivity available in this day and age.
I'm asking you about the logistics of this change.
Robin Hood?

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