How to develop rapture (piti) without concentration?

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budo
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How to develop rapture (piti) without concentration?

Post by budo » Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:28 am

In the sutta SN 46.33 the Buddha says to develop discernment, energy, and rapture if your mind is sluggish/tired/dull, and to develop concentration, tranquility, and equanimity if your mind is restless/excited.

I always thought rapture was a product of concentration, so how does one develop rapture without concentration?
Energy flows where attention goes

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: How to develop rapture (piti) without concentration?

Post by JamesTheGiant » Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:57 am

I'm not sure... but after a retreat where I had a lot of piti, now I can summon it up at will, and have been able to ever since.
Not the massive crashing waves of piti, but a lesser grade.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11

paul
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Re: How to develop rapture (piti) without concentration?

Post by paul » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:16 am

Thank you for the question.
Rapture is a factor on the way to concentration, not a product of it, it is the sense of initial attainment of the meditation subject following effort. It belongs to the active group of three in the Seven Factors for Awakening, mindfulness being the managing factor of the two groups..

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LG2V
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Re: How to develop rapture (piti) without concentration?

Post by LG2V » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:11 am

Brahmaviharas are good for developing rapture, especially Mudita.

Once you're familiar with the feeling, try to remember it and gently "will" the mind to experience it. When it arises, relax and allow the mind to observe and enjoy the feeling. Then, progress further. Allow the mind to enjoy steady rapture. Allow the mind to enjoy certain types of rapture, such as mirth, joy, or heavenly feelings.

Over time, you'll contemplate it more and your understanding will deepen. Summoning rapture will become easier to do.

Also, doing body contemplation helps you develop stronger rapture as well. The rapture from your meditations feels "deeper" and lasts longer when you've recently done a bit of body contemplation.
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justindesilva
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Re: How to develop rapture (piti) without concentration?

Post by justindesilva » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:38 am

paul wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:16 am
Thank you for the question.
Rapture is a factor on the way to concentration, not a product of it, it is the sense of initial attainment of the meditation subject following effort. It belongs to the active group of three in the Seven Factors for Awakening, mindfulness being the managing factor of the two groups..
It is not difficult, but need perseverence. The method id metta bhavana. One can do metta bhavsna while being seated , standing, walking or lying. It is a matter of radiating compassionate thoughts towards all and all types of beings and it is also developing brahmavihara.
How to meditate can be read on internet. If not sure I shall get back on this subject. During metta meditation one develops samatha or tranquuility too.

befriend
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Re: How to develop rapture (piti) without concentration?

Post by befriend » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:12 pm

Practicing the six subject of recollection, which are Buddha, Dhamma, sangha, virtuous behavior, generosity and deities. Anguttara nikaya The book of sixes sutta 10 to Mahanama
rest

befriend
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Re: How to develop rapture (piti) without concentration?

Post by befriend » Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:03 pm

The 6 contemplations lead to joy then rapture and then other things I can't recall
rest

paul
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Re: How to develop rapture (piti) without concentration?

Post by paul » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:11 pm

budo wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:28 am
the Buddha says to develop discernment, energy, and rapture if your mind is sluggish/tired/dull, and to develop concentration, tranquility, and equanimity if your mind is restless/excited.
Metta is a good way of arousing rapture because there is a person involved as the subject, and rapture is indeed mentioned as the nutriment in the Brahma realm :

200. Happy indeed we live, we who possess nothing. Feeders on joy we shall be, like the Radiant Gods.—-Dhammapada

But as the OP says, practitioners are often dealing with a mind state that needs to be activated or tranquillised, so it is better to read the seven factors for awakening not as a linear progression, but as two groups of three, with mindfulness as the overseer, to be applied as circumstances demand. If the mind is restless, then tranquillity from the calming group needs to be applied, and rapture could follow. The active group and the calming group really represent insight and serenity respectively, and they can be applied alternately as demanded by the state of the mind.

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