Right Livelihood & sattavaṇijjā - business in humans or in beings?

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dylanj
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Right Livelihood & sattavaṇijjā - business in humans or in beings?

Post by dylanj » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:27 am

Aṅguttara Nikāya 5.177, Vaṇijjā Sutta
Pañcimā bhikkhave, vaṇijjā upāsakena akaraṇīyā. Katamā pañca:

Satthavaṇijjā, sattavaṇijjā, maṃsavaṇijjā, majjavaṇijjā, visavaṇijjā.

Imā kho bhikkhave, pañca vaṇijjā upāsakena akaraṇīyāti.
translated by Ṭhānissaro Bhikkhu:

"Monks, a lay follower should not engage in five types of business. Which five? Business in weapons, business in human beings, business in meat, business in intoxicants, and business in poison.

"These are the five types of business that a lay follower should not engage in."
Why does he translate it as "human beings"? I believe others do as well. Apparently the Thai tipiṭaka has "living beings", i.e. it does not specify only humans, according to my Thai friend. Based on the pāḷi alone I would incline to agreeing with that translation but I wonder if there's any justification for this other translation.
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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dylanj
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Re: Right Livelihood & sattavaṇijjā - business in humans or in beings?

Post by dylanj » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:35 am

Sujāto Bhikkhu translates "living creatures"
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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Re: Right Livelihood & sattavaṇijjā - business in humans or in beings?

Post by santa100 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:03 am

Similarly for Ven. Bodhi's version as explained in "Noble Eightfold Path":
The Buddha mentions five specific kinds of livelihood which bring harm to others and are therefore to be avoided: dealing in weapons, in living beings (including raising animals for slaughter as well as slave trade and prostitution), in meat production and butchery, in poisons, and in intoxicants (AN 5:177). He further names several dishonest means of gaining wealth which fall under wrong livelihood: practicing deceit, treachery, soothsaying, trickery, and usury (MN 117). Obviously any occupation that requires violation of right speech and right action is a wrong form of livelihood, but other occupations, such as selling weapons or intoxicants, may not violate those factors and yet be wrong because of their consequences for others.

justindesilva
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Re: Right Livelihood & sattavaṇijjā - business in humans or in beings?

Post by justindesilva » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:49 am

translated by Ṭhānissaro Bhikkhu:


Why does he translate it as "human beings"? I believe others do as well. Apparently the Thai tipiṭaka has "living beings", i.e. it does not specify only humans, according to my Thai friend. Based on the pāḷi alone I would incline to agreeing with that translation but I wonder if there's any justification for this other translation.

The translation as living beings is correct. I heard at a sermon ( bana) that it means selling of slaves and women for prostitution , which is meaningful.

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Re: Right Livelihood & sattavaṇijjā - business in humans or in beings?

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:29 am

"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught

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Re: Right Livelihood & sattavaṇijjā - business in humans or in beings?

Post by Dhammanando » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:40 am

dylanj wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:27 am
Why does he translate it as "human beings"?
Presumably because the commentary glosses the term that way (sattavaṇijjā = manussavikkayo, "the sale of humans"), and on this occasion he believes the commentary to be correct.

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Re: Right Livelihood & sattavaṇijjā - business in humans or in beings?

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Mon May 07, 2018 6:56 pm

sattavaṇijjā is a key term. does it mean all living beings or just humans? i think it means humans because it's not readily apparent why all buying and selling of animals would be harm
for example, medical dogs. although it comes from a commentary, sattavaṇijjā = manussavikkayo in this context seems fair. perhaps it is an idiom
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught

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Re: Right Livelihood & sattavaṇijjā - business in humans or in beings?

Post by salayatananirodha » Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:55 am

Excellent question, and none of the answers thus far have utterly clarified this issue for me. Are there more suttas expounding right livelihood?
Dāsatta in suttas is slavery or the condition of a slave; could this pertain to why sattavaṇijjā is rendered slavery?
https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/dasatta
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


links:
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/index.htm
http://thaiforestwisdom.org/canonical-texts/
http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html

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