Right Livelihood & sattavaṇijjā - business in humans or in beings?

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dylanj
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Right Livelihood & sattavaṇijjā - business in humans or in beings?

Post by dylanj »

Aṅguttara Nikāya 5.177, Vaṇijjā Sutta
Pañcimā bhikkhave, vaṇijjā upāsakena akaraṇīyā. Katamā pañca:

Satthavaṇijjā, sattavaṇijjā, maṃsavaṇijjā, majjavaṇijjā, visavaṇijjā.

Imā kho bhikkhave, pañca vaṇijjā upāsakena akaraṇīyāti.
translated by Ṭhānissaro Bhikkhu:

"Monks, a lay follower should not engage in five types of business. Which five? Business in weapons, business in human beings, business in meat, business in intoxicants, and business in poison.

"These are the five types of business that a lay follower should not engage in."
Why does he translate it as "human beings"? I believe others do as well. Apparently the Thai tipiṭaka has "living beings", i.e. it does not specify only humans, according to my Thai friend. Based on the pāḷi alone I would incline to agreeing with that translation but I wonder if there's any justification for this other translation.
Born, become, arisen – made, prepared, short-lived
Bonded by decay and death – a nest for sickness, perishable
Produced by seeking nutriment – not fit to take delight in


Departure from this is peaceful – beyond reasoning and enduring
Unborn, unarisen – free from sorrow and stain
Ceasing of all factors of suffering – stilling of all preparations is bliss
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dylanj
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Re: Right Livelihood & sattavaṇijjā - business in humans or in beings?

Post by dylanj »

Sujāto Bhikkhu translates "living creatures"
Born, become, arisen – made, prepared, short-lived
Bonded by decay and death – a nest for sickness, perishable
Produced by seeking nutriment – not fit to take delight in


Departure from this is peaceful – beyond reasoning and enduring
Unborn, unarisen – free from sorrow and stain
Ceasing of all factors of suffering – stilling of all preparations is bliss
santa100
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Re: Right Livelihood & sattavaṇijjā - business in humans or in beings?

Post by santa100 »

Similarly for Ven. Bodhi's version as explained in "Noble Eightfold Path":
The Buddha mentions five specific kinds of livelihood which bring harm to others and are therefore to be avoided: dealing in weapons, in living beings (including raising animals for slaughter as well as slave trade and prostitution), in meat production and butchery, in poisons, and in intoxicants (AN 5:177). He further names several dishonest means of gaining wealth which fall under wrong livelihood: practicing deceit, treachery, soothsaying, trickery, and usury (MN 117). Obviously any occupation that requires violation of right speech and right action is a wrong form of livelihood, but other occupations, such as selling weapons or intoxicants, may not violate those factors and yet be wrong because of their consequences for others.
justindesilva
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Re: Right Livelihood & sattavaṇijjā - business in humans or in beings?

Post by justindesilva »

translated by Ṭhānissaro Bhikkhu:


Why does he translate it as "human beings"? I believe others do as well. Apparently the Thai tipiṭaka has "living beings", i.e. it does not specify only humans, according to my Thai friend. Based on the pāḷi alone I would incline to agreeing with that translation but I wonder if there's any justification for this other translation.

The translation as living beings is correct. I heard at a sermon ( bana) that it means selling of slaves and women for prostitution , which is meaningful.
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Re: Right Livelihood & sattavaṇijjā - business in humans or in beings?

Post by Dhammarakkhito »

"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

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https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught
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Re: Right Livelihood & sattavaṇijjā - business in humans or in beings?

Post by Dhammanando »

dylanj wrote: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:27 am Why does he translate it as "human beings"?
Presumably because the commentary glosses the term that way (sattavaṇijjā = manussavikkayo, "the sale of humans"), and on this occasion he believes the commentary to be correct.
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: Right Livelihood & sattavaṇijjā - business in humans or in beings?

Post by Dhammarakkhito »

sattavaṇijjā is a key term. does it mean all living beings or just humans? i think it means humans because it's not readily apparent why all buying and selling of animals would be harm
for example, medical dogs. although it comes from a commentary, sattavaṇijjā = manussavikkayo in this context seems fair. perhaps it is an idiom
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught
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Re: Right Livelihood & sattavaṇijjā - business in humans or in beings?

Post by salayatananirodha »

Excellent question, and none of the answers thus far have utterly clarified this issue for me. Are there more suttas expounding right livelihood?
Dāsatta in suttas is slavery or the condition of a slave; could this pertain to why sattavaṇijjā is rendered slavery?
https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/dasatta
I host a sutta discussion via Zoom Sundays at 11AM Chicago time — message me if you are interested
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