Can you see the Dependent Origination within you in in this life itself?

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Can you see the Dependent Origination within you in in this life itself?

1)Yes
18
100%
2)No
0
No votes
3)Don't know
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 18

SarathW
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Can you see the Dependent Origination within you in in this life itself?

Post by SarathW » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:39 am

It is very difficult for us to see the Dependent Origination in past life or the life to come.
We cant see how the Dependent Origination work for others.
But can it see it within your self right in this life.
I voted yes.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Dinsdale
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Re: Can you see the Dependent Origination within you in in this life itself?

Post by Dinsdale » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:15 am

I think you can observe aspects of DO, an obvious example is how tanha arises in dependence upon vedana.

I'm not convinced it is possible to see the whole process, at least not using the nidana descriptions given in SN12.2 and MN9.

Unfortunately there is no consensus on how DO should be interpreted, just a lot of competing interpretations. ;)
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SarathW
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Re: Can you see the Dependent Origination within you in in this life itself?

Post by SarathW » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:05 am

Following video (Sinhalese language) Ven. Sudassana clearly explains that three life model of Dependent Origination not be taken literally.
He said that three life model does not make sense logically.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Dinsdale
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Re: Can you see the Dependent Origination within you in in this life itself?

Post by Dinsdale » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:29 pm

SarathW wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:05 am
He said that three life model does not make sense logically.
I have yet to see a model of DO which makes sense logically. They all have their problems.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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binocular
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Re: Can you see the Dependent Origination within you in in this life itself?

Post by binocular » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:50 am

Can you see the Dependent Origination within you in in this life itself?
I once heard it explained like this:
If late at night, you eat a whole big pizza, next morning, you feel crappy.
That is, basically, how DO works.

Dinsdale
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Re: Can you see the Dependent Origination within you in in this life itself?

Post by Dinsdale » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:19 am

binocular wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:50 am
Can you see the Dependent Origination within you in in this life itself?
I once heard it explained like this:
If late at night, you eat a whole big pizza, next morning, you feel crappy.
That is, basically, how DO works.
That's kamma, isn't it?
Buddha save me from new-agers!

form
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Re: Can you see the Dependent Origination within you in in this life itself?

Post by form » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:08 pm



It should be a moment to moment model.

SarathW
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Re: Can you see the Dependent Origination within you in in this life itself?

Post by SarathW » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:53 pm

It should be a moment to moment model.
This is what Ven. Sudassan argued in above video.
Say for instance if I study DO in my next life I still use the same model.
The same way if I was a Buddhist practitioner in my last life I would have used the same DO model.
Based on that argument DO applicable right now and it is not a three life model.

Another argument he brings is if first two limbs Avijja and Sankhara are relating to the past we will never able to attain Nibbana. Because they will stay fixed.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Dinsdale
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Re: Can you see the Dependent Origination within you in in this life itself?

Post by Dinsdale » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:30 am

SarathW wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:53 pm
Based on that argument DO applicable right now and it is not a three life model.
The moment-to-moment model isn't supported by the nidana descriptions in SN12.2 and MN9, particularly these ones:

"Now what is aging and death? Whatever aging, decrepitude, brokenness, graying, wrinkling, decline of life-force, weakening of the faculties of the various beings in this or that group of beings, that is called aging. Whatever deceasing, passing away, breaking up, disappearance, dying, death, completion of time, break up of the aggregates, casting off of the body, interruption in the life faculty of the various beings in this or that group of beings, that is called death.

"And what is birth? Whatever birth, taking birth, descent, coming-to-be, coming-forth, appearance of aggregates, & acquisition of [sense] media of the various beings in this or that group of beings, that is called birth.

"And what is becoming? These three are becomings: sensual becoming, form becoming, & formless becoming. This is called becoming."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ati/tip ... .than.html
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Re: Can you see the Dependent Origination within you in in this life itself?

Post by JamesTheGiant » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:08 pm

Ajahn Brahmali says looking at the suttas, it's only a life-to-life thing, and you can't see it working from moment to moment. I had some arguments with him where I said I'd seen it clearly working moment to moment. The argument changed neither of our minds unfortunately. He continues to be wrong! Haha!
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11

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LG2V
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Re: Can you see the Dependent Origination within you in in this life itself?

Post by LG2V » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:41 pm

I think that it's possible to see it, if you take "jati" to mean "karma fruition" instead of "literal birth". I could be wrong, though.
Here are some excellent sites for giving free Dana (Click-Based Donation):
http://freerice.comhttp://greatergood.com/www.ripple.orgwww.thenonprofits.com

SarathW
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Re: Can you see the Dependent Origination within you in in this life itself?

Post by SarathW » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:51 pm

JamesTheGiant wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:08 pm
Ajahn Brahmali says looking at the suttas, it's only a life-to-life thing, and you can't see it working from moment to moment. I had some arguments with him where I said I'd seen it clearly working moment to moment. The argument changed neither of our minds unfortunately. He continues to be wrong! Haha!
The way I understand you can see it a moment to moment in this life itself as well as life-to-life.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

justindesilva
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Re: Can you see the Dependent Origination within you in in this life itself?

Post by justindesilva » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:31 am

SarathW wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:51 pm
JamesTheGiant wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:08 pm
Ajahn Brahmali says looking at the suttas, it's only a life-to-life thing, and you can't see it working from moment to moment. I had some arguments with him where I said I'd seen it clearly working moment to moment. The argument changed neither of our minds unfortunately. He continues to be wrong! Haha!
The way I understand you can see it a moment to moment in this life itself as well as life-to-life.
Paticca samuppada is the process of existence in samsara and then it involves the past life, present life, and the future life ( next bhava). The 1st and 2nd avidya paccaya sankara relates to damma from past bhava to the present bhava. From the 3rd to 10, that is sankara paccaya nama-rupa ................ to upadana (links which involve vingna, karma and craving from moment to moment) and then the 11th step as upadana paccaya bhava and bhava paccaya jathi , and 12th as jati paccaya jara maranam. Hence the 11th & 12 th links lead to the next life ( re birth) with ignorance (avijja).
This will explain that paticca samuppada links life from past to present and present to future lives.

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