Are we dead now?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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alfa
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Are we dead now?

Post by alfa » Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:58 am

We think we are awake.

We fall asleep. We wake up in a new world. We call it dream.

Then we wake up from the dream world to this 'real' world.

So is it possible that we are dead already?

And once the organism stops functioning, we will wake up to reality.

Perhaps the death of the organism makes us live for the first time?

pegembara
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Re: Are we dead now?

Post by pegembara » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:28 am

Dead men tell no tales. By merely asking/thinking, "you" already show that you are not dead.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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Samana Johann 1
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Re: Are we dead now?

Post by Samana Johann 1 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:21 am

alfa wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:58 am
We think we are awake.

We fall asleep. We wake up in a new world. We call it dream.

Then we wake up from the dream world to this 'real' world.

So is it possible that we are dead already?

And once the organism stops functioning, we will wake up to reality.

Perhaps the death of the organism makes us live for the first time?
Yes, Alfa, it's clear that you are "dead", bound to Mara pulling you there, for how else could you think that annihilation could be the way to awake?

There is no need to think even in terms of we and in such way direct or indirect promote such foolishness as killing oneself.

So let those here, who understand that using food for to practice the path to cross the floods, exlpain you well: since release is not gained by destruction of the raft before leaving one shore or if in the middle of the ocean.

And the simile of the raft should be only regarded toward the Dhamma (needed to let go off, not destracted), not at all that it means to destry the body even if released, since it will still be a field of merits for others for the time left, according to the remainders.

And it's importand to develop proper self-esteem and gratitude toward ones own sacrifices and those done by others, starting by your parents. Much has been satisfied till you came here, so use it not for any kind of foolish ego-trip but gain "simply" release from craving after sense peasure, becoming and not-becoming.

Maybe a short talk helps meanwhile toward awakening, death man wakling, Seeds of Becoming
It's not clear if the possibility to take on form here is given, so also this post might be made on merely uncomfortable trust. Please don't be shy to make remark as well as to do what ever with the post you might be inspired to. Key is found here. May it be, how ever, understood as Dhamma-Dana toward the Sangha of Buddhas Savakas and those following them and not thought for any kind of trade or exchange for low purpose for the world. Feel also always welcome here.

davidbrainerd
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Re: Are we dead now?

Post by davidbrainerd » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:21 am

In the sense that this current body is not your first body, you're dead many times over.

pyluyten
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Re: Are we dead now?

Post by pyluyten » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:23 am

alfa wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:58 am
Perhaps the death of the organism makes us live for the first time?
it is difficult to get used to the fact, that at some point we die, our organism becomes dust, all thoughts disappear, we are no more and will never be anymore. The idea death is an awakening should not refrain you from accepting something that, most people consider the most difficult one to accept.

perhaps I write this because i'm becoming a bit old :lol: :jumping:

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Kim OHara
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Re: Are we dead now?

Post by Kim OHara » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:38 am

According to the Wee Free Men this world is the afterlife - and it's really hard to prove their theory is wrong.
:thinking:

On the other hand, the Wee Free men are imaginary.
On the other other hand, they were invented by a very smart writer who said lots of wise things, e.g. https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/6 ... e-free-men

:reading:
Kim

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Samana Johann 1
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Re: Are we dead now?

Post by Samana Johann 1 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:58 pm

pyluyten wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:23 am
alfa wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:58 am
Perhaps the death of the organism makes us live for the first time?
it is difficult to get used to the fact, that at some point we die, our organism becomes dust, all thoughts disappear, we are no more and will never be anymore. The idea death is an awakening should not refrain you from accepting something that, most people consider the most difficult one to accept.

perhaps I write this because i'm becoming a bit old :lol: :jumping:
The Buddhas note on "breaking apart is unavoidable" or dhammata, is not an encouragement to either seek refuge in gallows humor and hope all is "fine" later, to go on as usuall, but to "kick up ones backside", either to go on to make merits for a better birth or to train till beyound. Or he mentions things just, that those understanding progress and leave those with determined destination just be samples for others.

Since a householder, the luck of getting old (having had accumulated merits therefor in the past) might be good considered with his accounts toward two Brahmans: [1] and [1]

As to go on as usuall, even not in the chatter area but in the middle of the general Dhamma:
Kim OHara wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:38 am
According to the Wee Free Men this world is the afterlife - and it's really hard to prove their theory is wrong.
:thinking:

On the other hand, the Wee Free men are imaginary.
On the other other hand, they were invented by a very smart writer who said lots of wise things, e.g. https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/6 ... e-free-men

:reading:
Kim
Was it ever considered that death could be also approach while reading another useless book? And how smart it is to tell yoirself, soon possible having missed a chance for a long long time, that everyting is fine and just keep on consuming merits?

Well, if one is after your merits, then such as "all is fine, eat" is total reasonable expressed... of course only The Thoroughbred might be touched, and what happens to donkeys can be assumed. And do not even ask of what possible about mares comfortable with "Nibbana here-and-now". That's probably while most are send into the kitchen to look for the food to make on one hand some merits for long live and on the other serve for what is nevertheless nedded to overcome another coming into being.

So possible good if either looking for the proper area for ones looking for gaming-friends or to reflect consquences of expressing certain careless approaches.

That is why at a later of the daily reflextions it's good to ask one self if really having attained a supra-death supporting attainment. Which probably fits also in regard of being busy in "rescue" death men walking ahead.

So it's good if this post was not of no use at the and as well and you are the one who is in charge of that now, sleep further or wake up.

Mostly death in the human realm is not even the beginn for a live as animal, hungry ghost or in hell for the first time, but as the Buddha said, the materialistic view happens when it happens that a being coming from the remembering-less state falls into the human world. Not remembering, such views are held. So at some point its good to better trust the Buddha and his well-following disciples rather trader after others merits...
It's not clear if the possibility to take on form here is given, so also this post might be made on merely uncomfortable trust. Please don't be shy to make remark as well as to do what ever with the post you might be inspired to. Key is found here. May it be, how ever, understood as Dhamma-Dana toward the Sangha of Buddhas Savakas and those following them and not thought for any kind of trade or exchange for low purpose for the world. Feel also always welcome here.

auto
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Re: Are we dead now?

Post by auto » Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:25 pm

for technicals, in abhidhamma
In the present life the bhavaïga cittas take the maranàsannanimitta
of the immediate past life as their object. As this object
is not the new external object that appears in one of the sense
doors in the present life that gives rise to a cognitive series of
consciousness, we are not aware of it. So when we are asleep
or when we do not know anything, these bhavaïga-cittas will
be arising and dissolving at a tremendous speed of more than
a thousand billion (1012) times per eye-wink.
Now suppose that a sense-object appears at one of the
sense-doors. It is necessary to know this new object so that we
can react to it as the need arises. In order to turn the stream of
consciousness towards this new object, the stream of bhavaïgacittas
must be arrested or cut off first.
The bhavaïga-stream cannot be arrested suddenly as soon
as the new sense object appears in one of the sense-doors. As
a man, running very fast, cannot stop suddenly at a point and
at least a few steps must be allowed before he comes to rest, so
also two bhavaïga-cittas must pass after the appearance of the
sense-object before the bhavaïga-stream can be arrested.
These two bhavaïga-cittas, in trying to give away the old
maranàsanna-nimitta and take the new sense-object, vibrate
somewhat from their normal situation. So they are known as
vibrating life-continuum (bhavaïga-calàna). But, as the bhavaïgastream
is arrested or cut off after the second bhavaïga-calàna,
this citta is renamed as bhavaïgupaccheda...
Now the five physical sense-objects do not appear or
become distinct at the sense-doors as soon as they are in contact
with the sense-doors. Even the object of very great intensity
(atimahantà-rammaõa) takes one conscious-moment (cittakkhaõa)
to develop itself into prominence so as to appear at the sensedoor.
So one bhavaïga-citta must pass from the time of contact of
the sense-object with the sense-door to the time the object appears
at the door. This citta is called atità-bhavaïga (past life-continuum).

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cappuccino
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Re: Are we dead now?

Post by cappuccino » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:05 pm

do you want to die?

if the answer is yes or no, you're in the land of the living

justindesilva
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Re: Are we dead now?

Post by justindesilva » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:32 pm

pyluyten wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:23 am
alfa wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:58 am
Perhaps the death of the organism makes us live for the first time?
it is difficult to get used to the fact, that at some point we die, our organism becomes dust, all thoughts disappear, we are no more and will never be anymore. The idea death is an awakening should not refrain you from accepting something that, most people consider the most difficult one to accept.

perhaps I write this because i'm becoming a bit old :lol: :jumping:
Jati paccaya jara maranam. Because of birth is the death.
Re birth here could be here moment to moment or life to life. But both are within existence through samsara and id part of the process of paticca samuppada.
In fact in death Rupa (apo tejo vayo patavi) is left behind while the momentum of mind (citta) carries on to condition another birth called rebirth. In kama loka thus paticca samuppada , the existence of life process continues, with breaks of similar deaths. With each re birth the phase of life changes as conditioned by Karma.
Human mind however is unable to control this path, and continues by taking birth in one of the 31 planes through samsara. But births and re births of kama loka ( sensual worlds ) can occur only in 11 realms.
Whether we like it or not births and rebirths in samsara will occur as part of a process in existence until one achieves the state of nirvana.

pyluyten
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Re: Are we dead now?

Post by pyluyten » Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:57 pm

justindesilva wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:32 pm
Whether we like it or not births and rebirths in samsara will occur as part of a process in existence until one achieves the state of nirvana.
yes at some point life ends. parinibanna. i'm not sure this is so easy to accept this to be the ultimate goal!

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cappuccino
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Re: Are we dead now?

Post by cappuccino » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:35 pm

pyluyten wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:57 pm
yes at some point life ends. parinibanna. i'm not sure this is so easy to accept this to be the ultimate goal!
life ending is another life, for almost everyone

pyluyten
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Re: Are we dead now?

Post by pyluyten » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:25 am

cappuccino wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:35 pm
pyluyten wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:57 pm
yes at some point life ends. parinibanna. i'm not sure this is so easy to accept this to be the ultimate goal!
life ending is another life, for almost everyone
ironically, people might felt relieved by rebirth, and would not admit impermanence. We have to fight hard to admit such thing :jedi: .This is why i strongly feel re-birth is fine if one *see it himself* (no i did not !! :rofl: ). if it's some theory in a book that allows not to fear death, then it might be an issue :shrug:

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