Dhammapada Verse 282
"Indeed, wisdom is born of meditation; without meditation wisdom is lost. Knowing this twofold path of gain and loss of wisdom, one should conduct oneself so that wisdom may increase."
"The knowledge and vision of things as they really are, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for the knowledge and vision of things as they really are? 'Concentration' should be the reply.
Transcendental Dependent Arising doesn't mention learning any particular language.
Is it possible to learn true dhamma without Pali ?
Re: Is it possible to learn true dhamma without Pali ?
Look at an ordinary Indian .. any of us
We know our mother tongue Bengali/Tamil etc, one language for north India which is Hindi, and of course English. In any given hour I speak all three. I am not unique .. same is true for most of us .. reading a Bengali newspaper while listening to cricket commentary in Hindi or news in English.
You are expected to know at least two languages as an educated person. Possibly three. So Mandarin and English should be considered normal learning task.
Last edited by No_Mind on Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.”― Albert Camus
Re: Is it possible to learn true dhamma without Pali ?
Words/ their meaning is located in different parts in brain not in one place, every word has its place. If you read it clicks via sense and meaning is gotten, and that part of brain reacts.seeker242 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:51 pm Dhammapada Verse 282
"Indeed, wisdom is born of meditation; without meditation wisdom is lost. Knowing this twofold path of gain and loss of wisdom, one should conduct oneself so that wisdom may increase."
"The knowledge and vision of things as they really are, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for the knowledge and vision of things as they really are? 'Concentration' should be the reply.
Transcendental Dependent Arising doesn't mention learning any particular language.
Science have made brain maps. Ideally all languages are same, but seeing unknown language it doesn't make sense and no reaction and no meaning and no understanding can't happen.
Re: Is it possible to learn true dhamma without Pali ?
Ah ha , mother tongue of course . Other than my mother tongue 1.Teochew , I had to learn mother language 2. Mandarin and much more difficult 3. Classical Chinese . With the second language 4. English , then we have to learn our national language 5. Bahasa . I dropped 6. Jawi language as to lessen the load .No_Mind wrote: ↑Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:57 pmLook at an ordinary Indian .. any of us
We know our mother tongue Bengali/Tamil etc, one language for north India which is Hindi, and of course English. In any given hour I speak all three. I am not unique .. same is true for most of us .. reading a Bengali newspaper while listening to cricket commentary in Hindi or news in English.
You are expected to know at least two languages as an educated person. Possibly three. So Mandarin and English should be considered normal learning task.
Nowadays , all the children's school bag is heavier than his body's weight .
I supposed to be live efficiently in this world , one need to be all equipped . And by this , is called stress . Because not everyone born with higher IQ and EQ , plus MQ .
You always gain by giving
Re: Is it possible to learn true dhamma without Pali ?
James Tan wrote: ↑Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:44 pm Ah ha , mother tongue of course . Other than my mother tongue 1.Teochew , I had to learn mother language 2. Mandarin and much more difficult 3. Classical Chinese . With the second language 4. English , then we have to learn our national language 5. Bahasa . I dropped 6. Jawi language as to lessen the load .
Nowadays , all the children's school bag is heavier than his body's weight .
I supposed to be live efficiently in this world , one need to be all equipped . And by this , is called stress . Because not everyone born with higher IQ and EQ , plus MQ .
"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.”― Albert Camus
Re: Is it possible to learn true dhamma without Pali ?
Why would a language hold a monopoly over mental freedom?
sabbe dhammā nālaṃ abhinivesāya
"nothing whatsoever should be clung to"
"nothing whatsoever should be clung to"
Re: Is it possible to learn true dhamma without Pali ?
Which is why it is so important to have a clear sense of priorities and set oneself realistic goals.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
Re: Is it possible to learn true dhamma without Pali ?
Not a particular language, but language as such does seem to have such monopoly.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
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Re: Is it possible to learn true dhamma without Pali ?
I think learning a little pali can help you understand the suttas better, particularly key words like kamma, dhamma, dukkha.
But that said there are more than a few people who know Pali quite well, and are linguistic geniuses with translations, but don't understand the teachings very well in a practical sense. The two skills, language and understanding, are interestingly not the same thing. We've seen this with some prominent scholarly monks recently.
But that said there are more than a few people who know Pali quite well, and are linguistic geniuses with translations, but don't understand the teachings very well in a practical sense. The two skills, language and understanding, are interestingly not the same thing. We've seen this with some prominent scholarly monks recently.
Re: Is it possible to learn true dhamma without Pali ?
It can also be more general. One's perception of the world is the information their senses give them. Alternatively one's perception of the world can be one's political opinions. In English, at least.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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Re: Is it possible to learn true dhamma without Pali ?
Here are some names of real chinese restaurants here in Vegas:
First comes fat, then the dung....
I'm sure in Chinese it has a much better meaning.
Re: Is it possible to learn true dhamma without Pali ?
Why not translate it whoever you want ? Why not translate it in such a way that it fits your already established views, no matter how ridiculous the translation might end up, and simply refuse to address any kind of criticism you might receive ? I've seen a couple of gurus/teachers doing pretty good using this method.
Re: Is it possible to learn true dhamma without Pali ?
To be fair, David, you are pointing out a different problem from translation - cases where words from another language sound like English words (or vice versa). In some cases this can lead to embarrassing encounters when it sounds like one is swearing in the local language.
I fondly remember a business in Hong Kong called Wong Kee Construction. And I was devastated when I broke my Fu King Hammer (that is literally what it said in the handle...).
Mike
I fondly remember a business in Hong Kong called Wong Kee Construction. And I was devastated when I broke my Fu King Hammer (that is literally what it said in the handle...).
Mike