Pacceka Buddha translated as Lonely Buddha ?

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James Tan
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Pacceka Buddha translated as Lonely Buddha ?

Post by James Tan » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:26 am

Hi there friends ,

Recently I came across translation of Pacceka Buddha as Lonely Buddha , which I doubt is not proper . I would think Lone Buddha is the usual translation accepted by majority .
Lonely means a kind of feeling .
Anyone care to explain ?

Thanks .
:reading:

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Sam Vara
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Re: Pacceka Buddha translated as Lonely Buddha ?

Post by Sam Vara » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:16 am

pacceka is I believe an adjective meaning separate, by itself or oneself, single, independent, etc. and it is applied to a number of things within the Pali Canon. So the "lonely" translation might at best be a transferred epithet (as in "the lonely sea and the sky") but I don't think there is any connotation that this type of Buddha wants company, or is sad for the lack of it. I think the term just means an independent Buddha, a "one-off".

James Tan
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Re: Pacceka Buddha translated as Lonely Buddha ?

Post by James Tan » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:40 pm

Below is the quote from Osho in his book " Joy " .

When you are lonely, you are looking for someone or something to fill your time, to fill the void in your schedule and to fill a void in your heart. You are longing for something that does not exist anymore, or maybe never existed in some cases. You hope for company and feel depressed when you are by yourself. Loneliness is a negative state of mind where you are always longing for the other. Never satisfied being by yourself and always looking elsewhere for fulfillment .

Alone is a positive state of mind, a very fulfilling place to be. It is a state where you are always and constantly delighted in yourself.
:reading:

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Sam Vara
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Re: Pacceka Buddha translated as Lonely Buddha ?

Post by Sam Vara » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:55 pm

James Tan wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:40 pm
Below is the quote from Osho in his book " Joy " .

When you are lonely, you are looking for someone or something to fill your time, to fill the void in your schedule and to fill a void in your heart. You are longing for something that does not exist anymore, or maybe never existed in some cases. You hope for company and feel depressed when you are by yourself. Loneliness is a negative state of mind where you are always longing for the other. Never satisfied being by yourself and always looking elsewhere for fulfillment .

Alone is a positive state of mind, a very fulfilling place to be. It is a state where you are always and constantly delighted in yourself.
Osho is right about one particular use of "lonely"; when applied to a a person, it is a psychological state. With regard to "alone", the English word is being freighted with a bit more meaning than usual, presumably because Osho wants to make a particular point.

dharmacorps
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Re: Pacceka Buddha translated as Lonely Buddha ?

Post by dharmacorps » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:46 pm

I agree it is a strange translation. I always assumed "silent Buddha" was proper.

chownah
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Re: Pacceka Buddha translated as Lonely Buddha ?

Post by chownah » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:50 am

I think that if one understands what a paccekabuddha is then how the term is translated is pretty much irrelevant. I think that if people think that the term used to refer to it is its most important aspect then they are missing it.
chownah

James Tan
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Re: Pacceka Buddha translated as Lonely Buddha ?

Post by James Tan » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:27 am

chownah wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:50 am
I think that if one understands what a paccekabuddha is then how the term is translated is pretty much irrelevant. I think that if people think that the term used to refer to it is its most important aspect then they are missing it.
chownah
I supposed it's still relevant .
Last edited by James Tan on Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
:reading:

chownah
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Re: Pacceka Buddha translated as Lonely Buddha ?

Post by chownah » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:31 am

James Tan wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:27 am
chownah wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:50 am
I think that if one understands what a paccekabuddha is then how the term is translated is pretty much irrelevant. I think that if people think that the term used to refer to it is its most important aspect then they are missing it.
chownah
Not for beginners .
Pacceka = chownah , irrelevant ?
I don't understand what you are saying and since you reference me I would like to know.
chownah

James Tan
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Re: Pacceka Buddha translated as Lonely Buddha ?

Post by James Tan » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:50 am

chownah wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:31 am
James Tan wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:27 am
chownah wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:50 am
I think that if one understands what a paccekabuddha is then how the term is translated is pretty much irrelevant. I think that if people think that the term used to refer to it is its most important aspect then they are missing it.
chownah

I don't understand what you are saying and since you reference me I would like to know.
chownah

Sorry if offended you .
Terms could be misleading if not translated properly . That's what I'm pointing at .
Last edited by James Tan on Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
:reading:

justindesilva
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Re: Pacceka Buddha translated as Lonely Buddha ?

Post by justindesilva » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:46 pm

dharmacorps wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:46 pm
I agree it is a strange translation. I always assumed "silent Buddha" was proper.
I remeber from sermons I had heard from reverend priests that a Pacceka buddha is enlightened with buddahood by his own efforts( paramita) but does not go the extent of explaining the damma as Gautama Budda did.

chownah
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Re: Pacceka Buddha translated as Lonely Buddha ?

Post by chownah » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:58 pm

James Tan wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:26 am
Hi there friends ,

Recently I came across translation of Pacceka Buddha as Lonely Buddha , which I doubt is not proper . I would think Lone Buddha is the usual translation accepted by majority .
Lonely means a kind of feeling .
Anyone care to explain ?

Thanks .
Can you say where you saw this....provide an excerpt or link?
chownah

James Tan
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Re: Pacceka Buddha translated as Lonely Buddha ?

Post by James Tan » Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:43 pm

chownah wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:58 pm
James Tan wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:26 am
Hi there friends ,

Recently I came across translation of Pacceka Buddha as Lonely Buddha , which I doubt is not proper . I would think Lone Buddha is the usual translation accepted by majority .
Lonely means a kind of feeling .
Anyone care to explain ?

Thanks .
Can you say where you saw this....provide an excerpt or link?
chownah
Hi chownah , here's the link .

http://beta.apadanatranslation.org/text/download/


Legends of the Buddhist Saints is made freely available to the public under the Attribution, Non-Commercial, Share Alike license.

Download PDF

Download ePub

Download individual chapters:

The Legend of the Buddhas [PDF ePub]
The Legend of the Lonely Buddhas [PDF ePub]
The Legends of the Theras [PDF ePub]
The Legends of the Therīs [PDF ePub]
Individual poems may be downloaded through the “Download” tab while reading online.
:reading:

chownah
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Re: Pacceka Buddha translated as Lonely Buddha ?

Post by chownah » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:19 pm

I read quite a bit of the "Legend of the Lonely Buddhas" but not all of it. It strikes me as not being from the pali canon. I tried to find out about some of the references mentioned in some of the footnotes but couldn't find anything.....I did not do a thorough search.

It seems that this "legend" is mixing together the concept of a pacceka buddha and the ideas from the rhino horn sutta.

I think that "one without knowledge of Pali , knowledge of dhamma , beginners in Buddhism" should stick with the pali canon because if they stray from that there is no telling what they might run into without the knowledge to verify its accuracy.

If you are wanting to establish the credibility of this "legend" then I suggest you chase down the various references mentioned in the footnotes like "Buddhā padā na", "Paccekabuddhā padā na", and "Apadā na" as a starting point.

It would be nice to find out where this "legend" comes from as it does not appear to be from the pali canon.
chownah

JiWe2
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Re: Pacceka Buddha translated as Lonely Buddha ?

Post by JiWe2 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:03 pm

Khuddaka Nikaya
The Collection of Little Texts
13. Apadana — Stories
Biographies, in verse, of the Buddha, 41 Paccekabuddhas ("silent" Buddhas), 549 arahant bhikkhus and 40 arahant bhikkhunis. Many of these stories are characterized by flowery paeans celebrating the glory, wonder, magnificence, etc. of the Buddha. The Apadana is believed to be a late addition to the Canon, added at the Second and Third Buddhist Councils.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... ex.html#ap
"The second section of the Apadana is the Paccekabuddhapadana, in which the Buddha is asked by Ananda about the paccekabuddhas. In the course of his reply, the Buddha includes the verses in Tristubh metre which occur in the Khaggavisanasutta of the Suttanipata. As has already been noticed, the Suttanipata says nothing about the speakers of these verses, although the Niddesa attributes them to the paccekabuddhas, and so does the Mahavastu." -Norman, Pali Literature

chownah
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Re: Pacceka Buddha translated as Lonely Buddha ?

Post by chownah » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:37 am

JiWe2,
Thanks for that. I am surprised at the existence of these suttas....their style is markedly different from other suttas. They contain stories. I guess that "one without knowledge of Pali , knowledge of dhamma , beginners in Buddhism" should be given a heads up to the fact that stories are stories and that they should compare stories to the buddha's teachings so that they can consciously evaluate any discrepencies and consciously consider authority.
These suttas seem to have not been translated very much. If anyone can find some english translations I would enjoy taking a peek to see if others translate "pacceka" as "lonely". If lonely becomes an accepted rendering of pacceka then perhaps the guide book people could change their name to "pacceka planet"....it has a nice ring....
I do think that the ideas given in the "legend" differ appreciably from the ideas given in the suttas about what is a pacceka buddha. I'm not going to look for references but if others do I would be interested in what they find.
chownah
Last edited by chownah on Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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