eating hatchable eggs constitute killing ?

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James Tan
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eating hatchable eggs constitute killing ?

Post by James Tan » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:57 am

Greetings ,

Does it mean violation of first precept if eating eggs which is hatchable ?

SarathW
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Re: eating hatchable eggs constitute killing ?

Post by SarathW » Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:37 am

No.
But there is a Buddhist story to show how painful for the bird to lose its eggs.
I can't recall the Sutta.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

James Tan
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Re: eating hatchable eggs constitute killing ?

Post by James Tan » Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:41 am

SarathW wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:37 am
No.
But there is a Buddhist story to show how painful for the bird to lose its eggs.
I can't recall the Sutta.
So , there is unwholesome kamma involve .

SarathW
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Re: eating hatchable eggs constitute killing ?

Post by SarathW » Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:43 am

So , there is unwholesome kamma involve .
I think it is not allowed monks to eat hatchable eggs.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

James Tan
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Re: eating hatchable eggs constitute killing ?

Post by James Tan » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:38 am

SarathW wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:43 am
So , there is unwholesome kamma involve .
I think it is not allowed monks to eat hatchable eggs.
Is it in the vinaya ?

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TamHanhHi
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Re: eating hatchable eggs constitute killing ?

Post by TamHanhHi » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:16 pm

Well, in general monastics are allowed to eat meat (which includes eggs) so long as it's offered and not killed specifically for them. They aren't allowed to eat raw meat, so presumably the layperson serving the egg would have cooked it. (See "Staple foods" in Ajahn Thanissaro's Buddhist Monastic Code). Lay people, however, break the first precept when they butcher an animal, for themselves or for others.

In terms of hatchable eggs, I don't think the texts mention it specifically, but a human embryo is considered living from the moment of conception. If that applies to hatchable eggs, then, yes, cooking/eating a hatchable egg might break the first precept.

We can refer to Bhikkhu Bodhi's summary of what involves breaking the precept then decide for ourselves. Or consult a teacher :)
A complete act of killing constituting a full violation of the precept involves five factors: (1) a living being; (2) the perception of the living being as such; (3) the thought or volition of killing; (4) the appropriate effort; and (5) the actual death of the being as a result of the action.
"Just as a large banyan tree, on level ground where four roads meet, is a haven for the birds all around, even so a lay person of conviction is a haven for many people: monks, nuns, male lay followers, & female lay followers."—AN 5.38 :candle:

chownah
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Re: eating hatchable eggs constitute killing ?

Post by chownah » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:34 am

In thailand many of us eat ant eggs. Does anyone here know of a way to tell if an ant egg is hatchable?
chownah

thepea
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Re: eating hatchable eggs constitute killing ?

Post by thepea » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:48 am

James Tan wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:57 am
Greetings ,

Does it mean violation of first precept if eating eggs which is hatchable ?
Yes.

form
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Re: eating hatchable eggs constitute killing ?

Post by form » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:01 am

chownah wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:34 am
In thailand many of us eat ant eggs. Does anyone here know of a way to tell if an ant egg is hatchable?
chownah
What about bacteria and virus?

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No_Mind
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Re: eating hatchable eggs constitute killing ?

Post by No_Mind » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:16 am

James Tan wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:57 am
Greetings ,

Does it mean violation of first precept if eating eggs which is hatchable ?
Eating fertilized egg constitutes killing.

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

James Tan
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Re: eating hatchable eggs constitute killing ?

Post by James Tan » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:19 am

thepea wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:48 am
James Tan wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:57 am
Greetings ,

Does it mean violation of first precept if eating eggs which is hatchable ?
Yes.
Any sutta to support ?

James Tan
Posts: 380
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: eating hatchable eggs constitute killing ?

Post by James Tan » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:20 am

No_Mind wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:16 am
James Tan wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:57 am
Greetings ,

Does it mean violation of first precept if eating eggs which is hatchable ?
Eating fertilized egg constitutes killing.

:namaste:
Would you mind refer sutta if any ?

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No_Mind
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Re: eating hatchable eggs constitute killing ?

Post by No_Mind » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:25 am

James Tan wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:20 am
No_Mind wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:16 am
James Tan wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:57 am
Greetings ,

Does it mean violation of first precept if eating eggs which is hatchable ?
Eating fertilized egg constitutes killing.

:namaste:
Would you mind refer sutta if any ?
The First Precept. Fertilized egg is living being (though perhaps not yet conscious)

I consume unfertilized eggs for this reason.

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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pilgrim
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Re: eating hatchable eggs constitute killing ?

Post by pilgrim » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:32 am

James Tan wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:20 am
No_Mind wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:16 am
James Tan wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:57 am
Greetings ,

Does it mean violation of first precept if eating eggs which is hatchable ?
Eating fertilized egg constitutes killing.

:namaste:
Would you mind refer sutta if any ?
Mahanama sutta
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .kuma.html

"Mahanama, inasmuch as a lay follower abstains from destroying living beings; abstains from taking what is not given; abstains from sexual misconduct; abstains from lying; and abstains from wine, liquor and intoxicants that are causes for heedlessness; in that way, Mahanama, a lay follower is virtuous."

James Tan
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Re: eating hatchable eggs constitute killing ?

Post by James Tan » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:41 am

No_Mind wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:25 am
James Tan wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:20 am
No_Mind wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:16 am


Eating fertilized egg constitutes killing.

:namaste:
Would you mind refer sutta if any ?
The First Precept. Fertilized egg is living being (though perhaps not yet conscious)

I consume unfertilized eggs for this reason.

:namaste:
How to determine fertilized or unfertilized ?

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No_Mind
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Re: eating hatchable eggs constitute killing ?

Post by No_Mind » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:59 am

James Tan wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:41 am

How to determine fertilized or unfertilized ?
I can tell about my country .. eggs we normally buy from large scale poultry farms are unfertilized (hens do not need a rooster to lay an egg; they do so almost daily on their own.)

Image

Eggs that local farmers bring to the market (about 1.5 x price) are fertliized (but maybe unfertilized too and passed off as fertilized). You can tell fertilized chicken eggs apart from unfertilized ones by candling eggs (with cell phone flash or LED torch)

It is not unknown to buy a fertilized egg in morning and have a chick hatch out of it in afternoon and wander around the pantry .. (given right conditions of course)

This is an unfertilized egg

Image

This is a fertilized egg

Image

Google "candling eggs to tell if they are fertilized" (without quotes)

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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Sam Vara
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Re: eating hatchable eggs constitute killing ?

Post by Sam Vara » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:19 am

Worth noting here that even if an egg is fertilised (i.e. has the "blood spot" or tiny embryo developing) it does not mean that it is hatchable, especially where production and distribution techniques involve refrigeration. After about a week, the chances of a fertilised egg being viable decline rapidly, and even optimal incubation conditions won't help.

chownah
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Re: eating hatchable eggs constitute killing ?

Post by chownah » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:46 am

A fried egg is not hatchable so I guess eating them is not killing.
chownah

thepea
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Re: eating hatchable eggs constitute killing ?

Post by thepea » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:41 pm

James Tan wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:19 am

Any sutta to support ?
I’m assuming by hatchable you mean a living being living inside.
Eating this would probably involve killing the being in the egg.
Anyway you do what you like if while meditating your mind cannot concentrate because of guilt then you have your answer.

chownah
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Re: eating hatchable eggs constitute killing ?

Post by chownah » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:35 pm

thepea wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:41 pm
James Tan wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:19 am

Any sutta to support ?
I’m assuming by hatchable you mean a living being living inside.
Eating this would probably involve killing the being in the egg.
Anyway you do what you like if while meditating your mind cannot concentrate because of guilt then you have your answer.
Seems like cooking the egg would involve killing the being in the egg.....eating the cooked egg would involve eating the body left over after that being reincarnated I guess.
chownah

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