If I am reborn it is not me. So why I care about the rebirth?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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cappuccino
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Re: If I am reborn it is not me. So why I care about the rebirth?

Post by cappuccino »

SarathW wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:56 am
My action is to avoid the suffering of another being.

today is the future from the perspective of the past

SarathW
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Re: If I am reborn it is not me. So why I care about the rebirth?

Post by SarathW »

I just surprised to find that what I am thinking is very close to the teaching of Ven. Buddhdasa!

"Buddhadasa rejected the traditional rebirth and karma doctrine, since he thought it to be incompatible with sunyata, and not conductive to the extinction of dukkha.[7]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhadasa
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: If I am reborn it is not me. So why I care about the rebirth?

Post by Spiny Norman »

cappuccino wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:44 pm
Atheist Buddhists are more atheist than Buddhist.
Buddha was an atheist because he rejected Atman/Brahman. :tongue:
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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cappuccino
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Re: If I am reborn it is not me. So why I care about the rebirth?

Post by cappuccino »

Dinsdale wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:57 am
Buddha was an atheist
The Thirty-one Planes of Existence

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Re: If I am reborn it is not me. So why I care about the rebirth?

Post by DNS »

cappuccino wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:13 pm
Dinsdale wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:57 am
Buddha was an atheist
The Thirty-one Planes of Existence
Buddhism, like Jainism might be more appropriately called Transtheism. It is beyond the theism or atheism of discussing an all-powerful Creator-God. There are impermanent deva gods, but not the traditional Creator-God found in other religions.

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cappuccino
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Re: If I am reborn it is not me. So why I care about the rebirth?

Post by cappuccino »

Brahma means God. The Great God, is called by Buddha, God the Father.

No, he isn't Creator. However, he is the Christian's focus.

Christians are not delusional. Nor the Greeks, who describe the Titans (Asura).

Zeus is a deva. He is perfectly real.

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Re: If I am reborn it is not me. So why I care about the rebirth?

Post by rightviewftw »

in brief;
it is not you who lived in the past life either, yet here you are aging and dying and if you don't do what needs to be done history will repeat itself.

SarathW
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Re: If I am reborn it is not me. So why I care about the rebirth?

Post by SarathW »

SarathW wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:01 am
I just surprised to find that what I am thinking is very close to the teaching of Ven. Buddhdasa!

"Buddhadasa rejected the traditional rebirth and karma doctrine, since he thought it to be incompatible with sunyata, and not conductive to the extinction of dukkha.[7]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhadasa
I found another video of Ajahn Buddhadasa on this topic.


“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: If I am reborn it is not me. So why I care about the rebirth?

Post by SteRo »

SarathW wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:17 am
If I am reborn, it is not me. So why I care about the rebirth?
That's a strange question considering that the kamma that causes dukkha in this life is the same kamma as that which causes rebirth in unhappy circumstances. So it's actually sufficient to care about avoiding dukkha in this life. Problem is however if one confuses dukkha with happiness.
The habit to grasp as realities the concepts arising from contacting words seems to be deep-rooted.

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Re: If I am reborn it is not me. So why I care about the rebirth?

Post by DooDoot »

SarathW wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:01 am
I just surprised to find that what I am thinking is very close to the teaching of Ven. Buddhdasa!
Unlikely. It seems Ven. Buddhadasa understood anatta. When anatta is realised, there is no need to care about 'rebirth' because, as Ajahn Buddhadasa often taught, when anatta is realised, there can be no selfishness. When there is no selfishness, there will only be good karma performed. When there is only good karma performed, there is no need to worry about rebirth because there is no bad karma.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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char101
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Re: If I am reborn it is not me. So why I care about the rebirth?

Post by char101 »

This same logic applies with the OP: if I erase my memory here then I am gone, why hassle through the effort to attain nibanna. Cessation can be attained here and now, just hit the head strong enough till one got amnesia.

Of course, this does not make sense, since one who got amnesia will still suffer. Nibbana is the end of suffering. Thus the suffering one try to eliminate is not "my suffering" but simply suffering, both in the present and the future. The reason rather than personal gain is compassion. There will be inenumerable rebirth with beings suffering in the future. If we can stop this cycle we can free inenumerable number of beings from suffering in the future.

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Re: If I am reborn it is not me. So why I care about the rebirth?

Post by SarathW »

If we can stop this cycle we can free inenumerable number of beings from suffering in the future.
Could you explain this in detail, please?
Is this Mahayana?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

daveblack
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Re: If I am reborn it is not me. So why I care about the rebirth?

Post by daveblack »

char101 wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:20 pm
This same logic applies with the OP: if I erase my memory here then I am gone, why hassle through the effort to attain nibanna. Cessation can be attained here and now, just hit the head strong enough till one got amnesia.

Of course, this does not make sense, since one who got amnesia will still suffer. Nibbana is the end of suffering. Thus the suffering one try to eliminate is not "my suffering" but simply suffering, both in the present and the future. The reason rather than personal gain is compassion. There will be inenumerable rebirth with beings suffering in the future. If we can stop this cycle we can free inenumerable number of beings from suffering in the future.
The mistake of Mahayana: the idea that you can or have the right to end the cycle for people who don't want the cycle to end. Some people want to keep being reborn because they love sex so much. Do you have the right to end the cycle for them? Buddha taught individual liberation because its a violation of freewill to liberate people who don't want liberation. That's why its individual. Plus, logically, it could only ever be individual. You can't stop the cycle; you can only exit the cycle. You can get out because you're in the cycle due to your own cravings, so by dropping your cravings, you can leave the cycle. But you can't end the cycle for others; you're not God.

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cappuccino
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Re: If I am reborn it is not me. So why I care about the rebirth?

Post by cappuccino »

daveblack wrote: The mistake of Mahayana: the idea that you can or have the right to end the cycle for people who don't want the cycle to end.
:goodpost:

char101
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Re: If I am reborn it is not me. So why I care about the rebirth?

Post by char101 »

daveblack wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:27 pm
The mistake of Mahayana: the idea that you can or have the right to end the cycle for people who don't want the cycle to end.
Just to avoid misunderstanding, the inenumerable beings which I wrote before is the inenumerable rebirths of a being (not of other beings), that will happen in the future, which can be stopped, by attaining Nibanna.

Also I'm not sure that whether in theravada or mahayana, that one can free other beings from samsara. The Buddha only showed the way, the freedom itself can only be acquired by oneself.

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