Form… feeling… perception… fabrications… consciousnesscappuccino wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:12 pm Form… feeling… perception… fabrications… consciousness as a clinging-aggregate. A virtuous monk should attend in an appropriate way to these five clinging-aggregates as inconstant, stressful… not-self
P is not X ... Q is not X ... R is not X ... S is not X ... T is not XBhikkhus, form is not-self ... Bhikkhus, feeling is not-self ... Bhikkhus, perception is not-self ... Bhikkhus, determinations are not-self ...
Bhikkhus, consciousness is not self ...
Anatta-lakkhana Sutta: The Discourse on the Not-self
i vote middle way and encourage people to actually study and train general semantics.
My opinion is that the English word "self" is a poor translation of atta/atman. The latter refers to an eternal unchanging entity, which is not necessarily present in the ordinary English word "self". So it's a bit misleading. And yes, I think that when the Buddha used the term atta, he was using the term and meaning prevalent in the culture of his time, which was atman. I'm open to correction, of course, but that's how it makes sense to me without contradicting other aspects of the Buddha's teaching.
He who is free from craving and from attachment, who is skilled in the knowledge of the significance of terms, who knows the grouping of letters and their sequence is indeed called "one who has lived his last, a man of great wisdom, a great man."
Rid of craving and without clinging, an expert in the study of texts, and understanding the right sequence of the words, he may indeed be called "In his last body", "Great in wisdom" and a "Great man".
He who is free from craving and attachment, is perfect in uncovering the true meaning of the Teaching, and knows the arrangement of the sacred texts in correct sequence—he, indeed, is the bearer of his final body.
He who is without craving and grasping, who is skilled in etymology and terms, [NāradaFn24-12] who knows the grouping of letters and their sequence - it is he who is called the bearer of the final body, one of profound wisdom, a great man.
352 He who is without thirst and without affection, who understands the words and their interpretation, who knows the order of letters (those which are before and which are after), he has received his last body, he is called the great sage, the great man.
should very much study the general semantics.Ven. Varado Bhikkhu ) [6]
352
Whoever’s adept at linguistics,
Proficient in words and semantics,
And skilled in phonetics,
An expert in syntax,
Whose craving and clinging’s destroyed:
“A great intellect”,
“The salt of the earth”,
“A last-body person” is called.
For it is possible that a virtuous monk, attending in an appropriate way to these
Is there a difference in 5 aggregates andcappuccino wrote: ↑Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:43 pmFor it is possible that a virtuous monk, attending in an appropriate way to these
five clinging-aggregates as inconstant... not-self, would realize the fruit of stream-entry.
Sayonara .
“If there were a self, monks, would there be my self’s property?” — “So it is, Lord.” — “Or if there is a self’s property, would there by my self?” — “So it is, Lord.” — “Since in truth and in fact, self and self’s property do not obtain, O monks, then this ground for views, ‘The universe is the Self. That I shall be after death; permanent, stable, eternal, immutable; eternally the same shall I abide, in that very condition’ — is it not, monks, an entirely and perfectly foolish idea?” — "What else should it be, Lord? It is an entirely and perfectly foolish idea.
A virtuous monk, Kotthita my friend, should attend in an appropriate way to the five clinging-aggregates as inconstant… not-self.
For it is possible that a virtuous monk, attending in an appropriate way to these five clinging-aggregates as inconstant… not-self, would realize the fruit of stream-entry.
What is it that attends in an appropriate way and what is it that views the 5 aggregates as anicca and not self?"'The six classes of consciousness should be known.' Thus was it said. In reference to what was it said? Dependent on the eye & forms there arises consciousness at the eye. Dependent on the ear & sounds there arises consciousness at the ear. Dependent on the nose & aromas there arises consciousness at the nose. Dependent on the tongue & flavors there arises consciousness at the tongue. Dependent on the body & tactile sensations there arises consciousness at the body. Dependent on the intellect & ideas there arises consciousness at the intellect. 'The six classes of consciousness should be known.' Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said. This is the third sextet.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
40. "Therefore, monks, give up whatever is not yours.[45] Your giving it up will for a long time bring you welfare and happiness. What is it that is not yours? Corporeality is not yours. Give it up! Your giving it up will for a long time bring you welfare and happiness. Feeling is not yours. Give it up! Your giving it up will for a long bring you welfare and happiness. Perception is not yours. Give it up! Your giving it up will for a long time bring you welfare and happiness. Mental formations are not yours. Give them up! Your giving them up will for a long time bring you welfare and happiness. Consciousness is not yours. Give it up! Your giving it up will for a long time bring you welfare and happiness.[46]
41. "What do you think, monks: if people were to carry away the grass, sticks, branches and leaves in this Jeta Grove, or burnt them or did with them what they pleased, would you think: These people carry us away, or burn us, or do with us as they please?" — "No, Lord." — "Why not?" Because, Lord, that is neither our self nor the property of our self." — "So, too, monks, give up what is not yours! Your giving it up will for a long time bring you welfare and happiness. What is it that is not yours? Corporeality... feeling... perception... mental formations... consciousness are not yours. Give them up! Your giving them up will for a long time bring you welfare and happiness."
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .nypo.html
[/quote]40. "Therefore, monks, give up whatever is not yours.[45] Your giving it up will for a long time bring you welfare and happiness. What is it that is not yours? Corporeality is not yours. Give it up! Your giving it up will for a long time bring you welfare and happiness. Feeling is not yours. Give it up! Your giving it up will for a long bring you welfare and happiness. Perception is not yours. Give it up! Your giving it up will for a long time bring you welfare and happiness. Mental formations are not yours. Give them up! Your giving them up will for a long time bring you welfare and happiness. Consciousness is not yours. Give it up! Your giving it up will for a long time bring you welfare and happiness.[46]
41. "What do you think, monks: if people were to carry away the grass, sticks, branches and leaves in this Jeta Grove, or burnt them or did with them what they pleased, would you think: These people carry us away, or burn us, or do with us as they please?" — "No, Lord." — "Why not?" Because, Lord, that is neither our self nor the property of our self." — "So, too, monks, give up what is not yours! Your giving it up will for a long time bring you welfare and happiness. What is it that is not yours? Corporeality... feeling... perception... mental formations... consciousness are not yours. Give them up! Your giving them up will for a long time bring you welfare and happiness."
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .nypo.html
To say then that the Pythagorean and Platonic know nothing of paticca samuppada is silly. paticca samuppada merely means because you're still clinging you're still in the cycle. that's it. Dependent arising = because these conditions exist, these other things arise. Because you cling to existence in the world, a new body for you arises.aflatun wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:56 am For anyone who has studied the Abrahamic +/- any of the pythagorean, platonic, peripatetic or stoic traditions anatta translated as "no soul" is puzzling. What these traditions call "soul" (of course there are differences among them) is encompassed by consciousness, determination, perception, feeling, maybe even rupa, all six sense bases, vitality, heat, etc in Buddhism. Of course they know nothing of paticca samuppada and that's the difference.
