Why a good nihilist experience rebirth?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
binocular
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Re: Why a good nihilist experience rebirth?

Post by binocular » Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:41 am

SarathW wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:24 am
Thus asked, I would answer, 'Form is inconstant... Feeling... Perception... Fabrications... Consciousness is inconstant. That which is inconstant is stressful. That which is stressful has ceased and gone to its end."
I think atheists have the same view.
Some atheists, yes, but not all. In contrast, there are, for example, people who are both epicurean and atheist, and they don't think that some feelings and perceptions are stressful; they think they are enjoyable.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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dylanj
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Re: Why a good nihilist experience rebirth?

Post by dylanj » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:44 am

wrong view. right view is the first step of the path. it's not possible for one with right view to properly complete any other part of the path.
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

SarathW
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Re: Why a good nihilist experience rebirth?

Post by SarathW » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:03 am

right view is the first step of the path.
This also another view.
What I am saying is modern atheist can have the same view without accepting rebirth and Kamma.
Perhaps the atheist will agree with the one life model of the rebirth and Kamma.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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rightviewftw
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Re: Why a good nihilist experience rebirth?

Post by rightviewftw » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:06 am

Someone wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:24 am
Thus asked, I would answer, 'Form is inconstant... Feeling... Perception... Fabrications... Consciousness is inconstant. That which is inconstant is stressful. That which is stressful has ceased and gone to its end."
I think atheists have the same view.
In letter but not in meaning. Venerable Sariputta is talking about Rupa, Vedana, Sankharas as the First Noble Truth which automatically assumes existence of Deathless and The 3rd Noble Truth.

This is not at all what an Atheist talks about when he/she use those words, even if it sounds the same, if asked for definitions it will be clear that the meaning is something else entirely.
Last edited by rightviewftw on Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:15 am, edited 6 times in total.

justindesilva
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Re: Why a good nihilist experience rebirth?

Post by justindesilva » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:08 am

SarathW wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:03 am
right view is the first step of the path.
This also another view.
What I am saying is modern atheist can have the same view without accepting rebirth and Kamma.
Perhaps the atheist will agree with the one life model of the rebirth and Kamma.
One who does not believe in rebirth and kamma will not be scared to act immorally. And such a person cannot have any desire to reach the stage of nibbana.

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rightviewftw
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Re: Why a good nihilist experience rebirth?

Post by rightviewftw » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:19 am

SarathW wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:03 am
right view is the first step of the path.
This also another view.
What I am saying is modern atheist can have the same view without accepting rebirth and Kamma.
Perhaps the atheist will agree with the one life model of the rebirth and Kamma.
A decent Bible quote Matthew 7:5;
You hypocrite, first take the wooden log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

pegembara
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Re: Why a good nihilist experience rebirth?

Post by pegembara » Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:09 pm

SarathW wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:53 am
Depends on whether the modern-day atheist feels or perceives that things are happening to him.
I think modern-day atheist think that the body is like the simile of the chariot.
At death, all the aggregate goes back to earth or whatever.
He still feels that aging and sickness is happening to him although intellectually he may reason otherwise. He is still not freed from the view of a self that only live once. So let's make full use of this one life. He is not finished with the business of living and relishing pleasurable experiences.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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Re: Why a good nihilist experience rebirth?

Post by binocular » Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:35 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:19 am
A decent Bible quote Matthew 7:5;
You hypocrite, first take the wooden log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
Because a discussion forum is not for discussion!
:yingyang:
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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rightviewftw
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Re: Why a good nihilist experience rebirth?

Post by rightviewftw » Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:40 pm

binocular wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:35 pm
rightviewftw wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:19 am
A decent Bible quote Matthew 7:5;
You hypocrite, first take the wooden log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
Because a discussion forum is not for discussion!
:yingyang:
do you want to discuss this or are you just throwing random remarks with nasty implications?

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diligence
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Re: Why a good nihilist experience rebirth?

Post by diligence » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:29 am

binocular wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:03 pm
SarathW wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:37 am
Why a good nihilist experience rebirth?
To begin with, there can be no such thing as a "good nihilist". All nihilists are amoral.
Yes, I agree. :smile:
With the arising of delight, there is the arising of suffering. With the cessation of delight, comes the cessation of suffering.

Mayaṃ sīlaṃ rakkhantā sappurisā bhavissāma.

Were it not for the Vinaya, and for those who continue to keep it alive to this day, there would be no Buddhism.

justindesilva
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Re: Why a good nihilist experience rebirth?

Post by justindesilva » Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:22 am

diligence wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:29 am
binocular wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:03 pm
SarathW wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:37 am
Why a good nihilist experience rebirth?
To begin with, there can be no such thing as a "good nihilist". All nihilists are amoral.
Yes, I agree. :smile:
Here I believe that the post rests on the beliefs of human beings in re birth. But buddhist literature explain that certain aninals as monkeys , birds, elephants etc. have been reborn on better spheres. Can somebody explain what form of beliefs they would have had during their animal existence to go in to a better realm.
( depending on the answer there would be an ecplanation).

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diligence
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Re: Why a good nihilist experience rebirth?

Post by diligence » Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:28 am

justindesilva wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:22 am
Here I believe that the post rests on the beliefs of human beings in re birth. But buddhist literature explain that certain aninals as monkeys , birds, elephants etc. have been reborn on better spheres. Can somebody explain what form of beliefs they would have had during their animal existence to go in to a better realm.
( depending on the answer there would be an ecplanation).
I'm so sorry for my English seems not good enough to understand your actual meaning :shrug: Could you please paraphrase it?
With the arising of delight, there is the arising of suffering. With the cessation of delight, comes the cessation of suffering.

Mayaṃ sīlaṃ rakkhantā sappurisā bhavissāma.

Were it not for the Vinaya, and for those who continue to keep it alive to this day, there would be no Buddhism.

justindesilva
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Re: Why a good nihilist experience rebirth?

Post by justindesilva » Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:58 am

diligence wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:28 am
justindesilva wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:22 am
Here I believe that the post rests on the beliefs of human beings in re birth. But buddhist literature explain that certain aninals as monkeys , birds, elephants etc. have been reborn on better spheres. Can somebody explain what form of beliefs they would have had during their animal existence to go in to a better realm.
( depending on the answer there would be an ecplanation).
I'm so sorry for my English seems not good enough to understand your actual meaning :shrug: Could you please paraphrase it?
Nalapana jatakaya is a story about monkeys lead by bodisatva budda . Here they are not humans.
Then there is story when bodisatva was an elephant.
A story of a bird and a snail ( sakunaggi sutta) .
Vatious other stories of cobra , horse ( siddartas horse) and other animals reborn as humans.
I mean to ask of the mentalities of those animals creatures and birds at the time of ecistence to be reborn in better spheres later. They could not have been annihilists or whatever.

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Re: Why a good nihilist experience rebirth?

Post by Dinsdale » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:34 am

SarathW wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:37 am
Why a good nihilist experience rebirth?
Could you say exactly what you mean by "nihilist" here? Doesn't it usually mean somebody who thinks that life has no meaning?
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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diligence
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Re: Why a good nihilist experience rebirth?

Post by diligence » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:56 am

justindesilva wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:58 am
Nalapana jatakaya is a story about monkeys lead by bodisatva budda . Here they are not humans.
Then there is story when bodisatva was an elephant.
A story of a bird and a snail ( sakunaggi sutta) .
Vatious other stories of cobra , horse ( siddartas horse) and other animals reborn as humans.
I mean to ask of the mentalities of those animals creatures and birds at the time of ecistence to be reborn in better spheres later. They could not have been annihilists or whatever.
I feel embarrassed that I cannot totally understand your question. However I'd like to say some words.
Buddha teaches that any beings in state of woe, including animals, has slim chance to be reborn in blissful state, which are human and devas. The animals you mentioned in the above, in my opinion, are limited in Bodhisattas. These animals were specail ones who had been accumulating pārami to become a Buddha. Their mentalities were usually wholesome.
Sorry for my English :embarassed:
With the arising of delight, there is the arising of suffering. With the cessation of delight, comes the cessation of suffering.

Mayaṃ sīlaṃ rakkhantā sappurisā bhavissāma.

Were it not for the Vinaya, and for those who continue to keep it alive to this day, there would be no Buddhism.

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