Why a good nihilist experience rebirth?

[SarathW]

Why a good nihilist experience rebirth?
Suppose there is a person who doe does not believe in rebirth and Kamma but he performs the good action.
Basically, he follows the Noble Eightfold path except the right view but he does not believe in a self.
Why is he not an Arahant?

[DooDoot]

I doubt a nihilist can follow the Noble Eightfold Path because I think a nihilist must believe in self; otherwise he/she cannot be a nihilist.

Instead of threatening or concerning oneself with the destination of nihilists, possibly we should concern ourself with whether we understand the Dhamma of the Buddha properly.

The crucial deep insight is there is no one in here, out there or anywhere... the doer & knower are just natural processes. When one penetrates into the heart of this insight, then there is nothing to lose and nothing to be annihilated. Only when there is some persistent entity there to begin with can we use the word annihilate.

Ajahn Brahm

[budo]

Being a nihilist doesn't make you a mindful person. If you're not mindful how are you going to remove your addictions, your fetters, your anger, greed, delusion, etc.

Out of the 10 fetters, only 1 really has to do with Buddhism, which is Fetter 2 doubt in the buddha, but more like doubt in the dhamma, not necessarily the buddha..

All the other fetters are more or less universal.

[User1249x]

Why a good nihilist experience rebirth?

Do you think being good or bad determines if there will be rebirth or not?

[binocular]

Why a good nihilist experience rebirth?

To begin with, there can be no such thing as a "good nihilist". All nihilists are amoral.

[Polar Bear]

Why a good nihilist experience rebirth?

To begin with, there can be no such thing as a "good nihilist". All nihilists are amoral.

That's not true, one could be an existential nihilist but not a moral nihilist. For example, all buddhists could be construed as such.

The idea that consciousness ceases at death is not nihilism, annihilationism is a better term. People conflate these two it seems because one of the annihilationists back in the Buddha's day held the view that annihiliationism implies moral nihilism, but other annihilationists would disagree, for example many modern-day ethicists.

[SarathW]

I think a nihilist must believe in self; otherwise he/she cannot be a nihilist.

I am talking about a person who does not believe in a self.

[DNS]

I think a nihilist must believe in self; otherwise he/she cannot be a nihilist.

I am talking about a person who does not believe in a self.

Assuming there was such a nihilist who was a very good person, did good for the sake of others and a properly functioning society, did good deeds, generosity, etc (and I think there are those that do that); according to traditional Buddhist beliefs in kamma and rebirth, he would still be reborn because he still has avijjā (ignorance). He is still ignorant to the nature of reality, 4 noble truths, DO, etc. Due to his good deeds, we might assume he/she is reborn to a pleasant deva realm, but definitely not parinibbana.

[DooDoot]

I am talking about a person who does not believe in a self.

A person who does not believe in a self is called a 'sotapanna' in Buddhism. Where is a nihilist must believe in self. There cannot be a nihilist who does not believe in a self. The following is the definition of a nihilist from the Pali suttas:

There are, bhikkhus, some recluses and brahmins who are annihilationists and who on seven grounds proclaim the annihilation, destruction, and extermination of an existent being. And owing to what, with reference to what, do these honorable recluses and brahmins proclaim their views?

Herein, bhikkhus, a certain recluse or a brahmin asserts the following doctrine and view: 'The self, good sir, has material form; it is composed of the four primary elements and originates from father and mother. Since this self, good sir, is annihilated and destroyed with the breakup of the body and does not exist after death, at this point the self is completely annihilated.' In this way some proclaim the annihilation, destruction, and extermination of an existent being.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .bodh.html

The idea that consciousness ceases at death is... annihilationism.

Please kindly provide evidence from the Pali suttas for this assertion. Thanks

[SarathW]

The following is the definition of a nihilist from the Pali suttas:

I am thinking about a modern-day atheist.

[DooDoot]

I am thinking about a modern-day atheist.

So asking in Christianity or Islam, does the atheist go to hell if the atheist is good but don't believe in God?

[SarathW]

He is still ignorant to the nature of reality, 4 noble truths, DO, etc. Due to his good deeds, we might assume he/she is reborn to a pleasant deva realm, but definitely not parinibbana.

Are you saying that believing in Kamma and rebirth is necessary for the enlightenment?

[Polar Bear]

The idea that consciousness ceases at death is... annihilationism.

Please kindly provide evidence from the Pali suttas for this assertion. Thanks

Well yes, it refers to the person or existent being, so a physicalist or anyone who thinks that consciousness is utterly dependent on the nervous system but who does not have a self-view might get out of being an annihilationist through a kind of doctrinal loophole.

[DNS]

I am thinking about a modern-day atheist.

So asking in Christianity or Islam, does the atheist go to hell if the atheist is good but don't believe in God?

According to some literalist interpretations in monotheistic religions, yes they go to hell. But not so in Buddhism.
http://justbegood.net/

He is still ignorant to the nature of reality, 4 noble truths, DO, etc. Due to his good deeds, we might assume he/she is reborn to a pleasant deva realm, but definitely not parinibbana.

Are you saying that believing in Kamma and rebirth is necessary for the enlightenment?

Yes, although with enlightenment, it is not beliefs, but rather seeing kamma and rebirth (according to Buddhism).

[pegembara]

The following is the definition of a nihilist from the Pali suttas:

I am thinking about a modern-day atheist.

Depends on whether the modern-day atheist feels or perceives that things are happening to him. That sense of me or "I am". Otherwise, there is no freeing of the citta. It's not a matter of belief but rather a knowing of things as they are.

There he addressed the monks, "Monks, an uninstructed run-of-the-mill person might grow disenchanted with this body composed of the four great elements, might grow dispassionate toward it, might gain release from it. Why is that? Because the growth & decline, the taking up & putting down of this body composed of the four great elements are apparent. Thus the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person might grow disenchanted, might grow dispassionate, might gain release there.

"But as for what's called 'mind,' 'intellect,' or 'consciousness,' the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person is unable to grow disenchanted with it, unable to grow dispassionate toward it, unable to gain release from it. Why is that? For a long time this has been relished, appropriated, and grasped by the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person as, 'This is me, this is my self, this is what I am.' Thus the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person is unable to grow disenchanted with it, unable to grow dispassionate toward it, unable to gain release from it.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

"What runs?"

"What runs quickly is viññana,
movements walking in a row,
one after another. Not doubting that saññas are right,
the heart gets caught up in the running back & forth.
Saññas grab hold of things outside
and pull them in to fool the mind,
Making it think in confusion & go out searching,
wandering astray.
They fool it with various dhammas,
like a mirage."

"What gains total release from the five khandhas?"

"The heart, of course, & the heart alone.
It doesn't grasp or get entangled.
No more poison of possessiveness,
no more delusion,
it stands alone.
No saññas can fool it into following along
behind them."

"When they say there's death, what dies?"

"Sankharas die, destroying their effects."

The sankhara aggregate offers no pleasure
and truly is painful,
for it has to age, grow ill, and die every day.
When the mind knows the unexcelled Dhamma,
it extracts itself from its defiling error
that aggravates disease.
This error is a fierce fault of the mind.
But when it clearly sees the Dhamma,
it removes its error,
and there's no more poison in the heart.
When the mind sees the Dhamma,
abundantly good
& released from error,
meeting the Dhamma, it sheds all things
that would make it restless.
It's mindful, in & of itself,
& unentangled.
Its love for the khandhas comes to an end,
its likes are cured,
its worries cease,
all dust is gone.
Even if the mind thinks in line with its nature,
we don't try to stop it.
And when we don't stop it,
it stops running wild.
This frees us from turmoil.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/tha ... allad.html