Does words have power?

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D1W1
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Does words have power?

Post by D1W1 » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:05 am

Hello all,

The story is long, I'm trying to make it short.

Politic has been permeated into all aspects of life, including religion. Many people want to achieve political power in the name of religion. I was involved in a temple long time ago, I used to consult my personal life problem with the monk. I have different nationality and I am not the member of this temple. After quite a while, I found out I was disliked politically, for sure. Later, I found my personal life story spread, not just to the member of that temple but also to other temple of the same etchnic as theirs.
I was shocked other people could knew my personal life problem, I never told them. Not long after that, one monk of other temple of the same ethnicity with accuracy describing publicly my personal problem on the website of their temple, the only difference is, he said "He is a leper".

I have no leprosy. I heard some words carry power such as words that use to curse people. My concern is will his words become reality? Thanks.

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DooDoot
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Re: Does words have power?

Post by DooDoot » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:24 am

Buddhism has the power of metta (loving-kindness) rather than cursing & casting spells. If you manage to get leprosy due this curse, it is not related to Buddhism. I think you should consider strongly developing faith in monks that have metta. With metta. :heart:

SarathW
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Re: Does words have power?

Post by SarathW » Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:05 am

There is a Sutta to say some have the power to destroy villages by their willpower.
I can't recall the sutta.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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rightviewftw
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Re: Does words have power?

Post by rightviewftw » Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:22 am

Reminds me of this story;
5.0. VATTHUGATHA

1. From the beautiful city of the Kosalas (Savatthi) a Brahmana, well versed in the hymns, went to the South (Dakkhinapatha) wishing for nothingness. (982)
2. In Assaka's territory, in the neighbourhood of Alaka, he dwelt on the banks of the Godhavari, (living) on gleanings and fruit. (983)
3. And close by the bank there was a large village, with the income of which he prepared a great sacrifice. (984)
4. Having offered the great sacrifice, he again entered the hermitage. Upon his re-entering, another Brahmana arrived, (985)
5. With swollen feet, trembling, covered with mud, with dust on his head. And he going up to him (i.e. the first Brahmana) demanded five hundred (pieces of money). (986)
6. Bavari, seeing him, bade him be seated, asked him whether he was happy and well, and spoke as follows: (987)

7. 'What gifts I had are all given away by me; pardon me, O Brahmana, I have no five hundred.' (988)

8. 'If you will not give to me who asks, may your head on the seventh day cleave into seven.' (989)


9. So after the usual ceremonies this impostor made known his fearful (curse). On hearing these his words Bavari became sorrowful. (990)
10. He wasted away taking no food, transfixed by the arrow of grief, but yet his mind delighted in meditation. (991)
11. Seeing Bavari struck with horror and sorrowful, the benevolent deity (of that place) approached him and said as follows: (992)

12. 'He does not know (anything about) the head; he is a hypocrite coveting riches; knowledge of the head and head-splitting is not found in him.' (993)

13. 'If the venerable (deity) knows it, then tell me, when asked, all about the head and head-splitting; let us hear your words.' (994)

14. 'I do not know this; knowledge of it is not found in me; as to the head and head-splitting, this is to be seen by Buddhas (only).' (995)


15. 'Who then, say, in the circumference of the earth knows the head and head-splitting, tell me that, O deity?' (996)

16. 'Formerly went out from Kapilavatthu a ruler of the world, an offspring of the Okkaka king, the Sakya son, the light-giving; (997)

17. 'He is, O Brahmana, the perfectly Enlightened (Sambuddha); perfect in all things, he has attained the power of all knowledge, sees clearly in everything; he has arrived at the destruction of all things, and is liberated in the destruction of the upadhis. (998)

18. 'He is Buddha, he is Bhagava(Lord Buddha) in the world, he, the clearly-seeing, teaches the Dhamma; go you to him and ask, he will explain it to you.' (999)

19. Having heard the word 'Sambuddha,' Bavari rejoiced, his grief became little, and he was filled with great delight. (1000)
20. Bavari glad, rejoicing, and eager asked the deity: 'In what village or in what town or in what province dwells the chief of the world, that going there we may adore the perfectly Enlightened, the first of men?' (1001)

21. 'In Savatthi, the town of the Kosalas, dwells Jina (the Victorious Buddha), of great panna(direct experiential understanding) and excellent wide knowledge, he the Sakya son, unyoked, free from passion, skilled in head-splitting, the bull of men.' (1002)

22. Then (Bavari) addressed his disciples, Brahmanas, perfect in the hymns: 'Come, youths, I will tell (you something), listen to my words: (1003)

23. 'He whose appearance in the world is difficult to be met with often, he is at the present timeborn in the world and widely renowned as Sambuddha (the perfectly Enlightened); go quickly to Savatthi and behold the best of men.' (1004)

...

50. Ajita said: 'The head and head-splitting Bavari asked about; explain that, O Bhagava(Lord Buddha) , remove our doubt, O Isi(Rishi,saint).' (1031)

51. Bhagava(Lord Buddha) said: 'Ignorance is the head, know this; knowledge cleaves the head, together with belief, thoughtfulness, meditation(trance), determination, and strength.' (1032)


52. Then with great joy having composed himself the young man put his hide on one shoulder, fell at (Bhagava(Lord Buddha) 's) feet (and saluted him) with his head, (saying): (1033)

53. 'Bavari, the Brahmana, together with his disciples, O you venerable man, delighted and glad, does homage to your feet, O you clearly-seeing.' (1034)
...
I would consider talking to the sangha leader and or reprimand whoever is the gossipgirl at that monastery.
If they are such that do not care for such things then i would probably not care to visit them either as that inspires not faith.
Last edited by rightviewftw on Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sam Vara
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Re: Does words have power?

Post by Sam Vara » Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:03 am

D1W1 wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:05 am
Not long after that, one monk of other temple of the same ethnicity with accuracy describing publicly my personal problem on the website of their temple, the only difference is, he said "He is a leper".

I have no leprosy. I heard some words carry power such as words that use to curse people. My concern is will his words become reality? Thanks.
Without knowing the background and the specific details to this, it is very hard to say what the phrase "he is a leper" actually means. It sounds like the phrase is being used figuratively, to make a point about an aspect of somebody in a non-medical way. Calling someone a "leper" when they don't have leprosy probably means something like "they are shunned by others", because this is what happened to lepers in the past. It might be a nasty way of talking, but it has nothing to do with real leprosy. As such, I wouldn't bother about it becoming reality. As others have said, you might want to think carefully about associating with people who talk like this and betray confidences.

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No_Mind
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Re: Does words have power?

Post by No_Mind » Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:23 am

It could be he meant "he is a schlepper" (person who dresses sloppily or trying to mean you are poor/slothful/sloppy etc)

Curse does not come to fruition. And as far as I understand it was not a curse but an unkind comment.

:namaste:
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Virgo
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Re: Does words have power?

Post by Virgo » Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:18 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:03 am
D1W1 wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:05 am
Not long after that, one monk of other temple of the same ethnicity with accuracy describing publicly my personal problem on the website of their temple, the only difference is, he said "He is a leper".

I have no leprosy. I heard some words carry power such as words that use to curse people. My concern is will his words become reality? Thanks.
Without knowing the background and the specific details to this, it is very hard to say what the phrase "he is a leper" actually means. It sounds like the phrase is being used figuratively, to make a point about an aspect of somebody in a non-medical way. Calling someone a "leper" when they don't have leprosy probably means something like "they are shunned by others", because this is what happened to lepers in the past. It might be a nasty way of talking, but it has nothing to do with real leprosy. As such, I wouldn't bother about it becoming reality. As others have said, you might want to think carefully about associating with people who talk like this and betray confidences.
This. :thumbsup:

Kevin

D1W1
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Re: Does words have power?

Post by D1W1 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:36 am

Thanks all for the helpful reply :anjali:
Sam Vara wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:03 am
It might be a nasty way of talking, but it has nothing to do with real leprosy. As such, I wouldn't bother about it becoming reality. As others have said, you might want to think carefully about associating with people who talk like this and betray confidences.
I did not associate with him, it was my personal problem that spread to him.

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DooDoot
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Re: Does words have power?

Post by DooDoot » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:23 am

SarathW wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:05 am
There is a Sutta to say some have the power to destroy villages by their willpower.
I can't recall the sutta.
I doubt this kind of power is to be honored & worshiped; like worshiping the powers of Mara.
What then do you think, householder? Suppose a Samaṇa or Brahmin, possessed of supernormal psychic powers and mastery of mind were to come here and say: ‘This (town of) Nālandā will I reduce to ashes by one thought of intense hatred.’

https://suttacentral.net/en/mn56
The Vinaya forbids bhikkhus from using psychic powers, including the evil-eye.
In addition to the four above categories of means of killing, the Commentary includes two of its own:

—Magical formulae: reciting passages that call on malevolent spirits to bring about a person’s death, using voodoo, etc.

—Psychic powers: using the “evil eye” or other similar innate powers.

The Canon contains a number of passages—MN 56 is one example — describing people who, “developed in mind,” use their powers to kill. The
Commentary notes the existence of these passages and of “some teachers” who cite them as proof that meditative powers can be used in this way, but it dismisses the idea on the grounds that meditative powers are skillful and based on pleasant mental states, whereas the act of killing is unskillful and based on painful mental states. The Sub-commentary adds that the powers described in the Canon are actually based on magical formulae. Still, because the success of these formulae depends on a certain level of concentration, it would seem that using one’s powers of concentration to kill would fulfil the factor of effort here.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... o/bmc1.pdf

SarathW
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Re: Does words have power?

Post by SarathW » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:32 am

Thank you, DD.
You have master the art of locating sutta.
:twothumbsup:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

binocular
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Re: Does words have power?

Post by binocular » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:10 pm

D1W1 wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:36 am
I did not associate with him, it was my personal problem that spread to him.
How??
If this isn't about an actual contagious disease, then what is it about?

justindesilva
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Re: Does words have power?

Post by justindesilva » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:56 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:24 am
Buddhism has the power of metta (loving-kindness) rather than cursing & casting spells. If you manage to get leprosy due this curse, it is not related to Buddhism. I think you should consider strongly developing faith in monks that have metta. With metta. :heart:
Paritta desana ( or pirith) chanted in theravada countries is known to carry healing powers and power of blessing through its wording. Scientific studies made with water placed in paritta has shown changes in chemical bondage.
Nearly a decade ago at the Situlpauva hermitage in southern Sri Lanka a paritta chanting ceremony for 3 months ( non stop) was held. On the last night of this ceremony the water held in the pot before the chanting , over flowed and it is a fact witnessec before many who participated including the chief incumbent priest. This is a clear case of the power of words in pirith.
Further in front of pregnant women , angulimala pirith is chanted to make pregnancy more comfortable.

D1W1
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Re: Does words have power?

Post by D1W1 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:16 pm

binocular wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:10 pm
D1W1 wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:36 am
I did not associate with him, it was my personal problem that spread to him.
How??
If this isn't about an actual contagious disease, then what is it about?
I consulted my personal life problem (it has nothing to do with disease) to the head of the monk of that temple. The story went to other temple of the same ethnicity as theirs.

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Sam Vara
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Re: Does words have power?

Post by Sam Vara » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:28 pm

D1W1 wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:16 pm
binocular wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:10 pm
D1W1 wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:36 am
I did not associate with him, it was my personal problem that spread to him.
How??
If this isn't about an actual contagious disease, then what is it about?
I consulted my personal life problem (it has nothing to do with disease) to the head of the monk of that temple. The story went to other temple of the same ethnicity as theirs.
Yes, that's what I meant in my post. I would avoid people who betray confidences and pass on personal information; and also those who publicise it widely, if it might have detrimental consequences for someone. If this is what happened it is not skilfull and leads to unhappiness.

binocular
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Re: Does words have power?

Post by binocular » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:40 pm

D1W1 wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:16 pm
I consulted my personal life problem (it has nothing to do with disease) to the head of the monk of that temple. The story went to other temple of the same ethnicity as theirs.
If I'm understanding you correctly, then what you're describing isn't that uncommon. Religious teachers not rarely use real examples in their talks to make some point (religious or otherwise). Even if they don't use names, sometimes, there are enough other details to recognize the real person whom they are talking about.
This can be very painful for the person, and can ruin their reputation.

I'm sorry you're going through this.

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