The Buddha displaying sense of humor

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binocular
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Re: The Buddha displaying sense of humor

Post by binocular »

/.../
[2] "Then there is the case of the monk who can handle the cloud of dust, but on seeing the top of the enemy's banner, he falters, faints, doesn't steel himself, can't continue in the holy life. Declaring his weakness in the training, he leaves the training and returns to the lower life. What is the top of the banner for him? There is the case of the monk who not only hears that 'In that village or town over there is a woman or girl who is shapely, good-looking, charming, endowed with the foremost lotus-like complexion.' He sees for himself that in that village or town over there is a woman or girl who is shapely, good-looking, charming, endowed with the foremost lotus-like complexion. On seeing her, he falters, faints, doesn't steel himself, can't continue in the holy life. Declaring his weakness in the training, he leaves the training and returns to the lower life. That, for him, is the top of the banner. This individual, I tell you, is like the warrior who can handle the cloud of dust, but on seeing the top of the enemy's banner, he falters, faints, doesn't steel himself, can't engage in the battle. Some individuals are like this. This is the second type of warrior-like individual who can be found existing among the monks.

[3] "Then there is the case of the monk who can handle the cloud of dust & the top of the enemy's banner, but on hearing the tumult [of the approaching forces], he falters, faints, doesn't steel himself, can't continue in the holy life. Declaring his weakness in the training, he leaves the training and returns to the lower life. What is the tumult for him? There is the case of the monk who has gone to the wilderness, to the foot of a tree, or to an empty building. A woman approaches him and giggles at him, calls out to him, laughs aloud, & teases him. On being giggled at, called out to, laughed at, & teased by the woman, he falters, faints, doesn't steel himself, can't continue in the holy life. Declaring his weakness in the training, he leaves the training and returns to the lower life. That, for him, is the tumult. This individual, I tell you, is like the warrior who can handle the cloud of dust & the top of the enemy's banner, but on hearing the tumult he falters, faints, doesn't steel himself, can't engage in the battle. Some individuals are like this. This is the third type of warrior-like individual who can be found existing among the monks.


/.../
[5] "Then there is the case of the monk who can handle the cloud of dust, the top of the enemy's banner, the tumult, & hand-to-hand combat. On winning the battle, victorious in battle, he comes out at the very head of the battle. What is victory in the battle for him? There is the case of the monk who has gone to the wilderness, to the foot of a tree, or to an empty dwelling. A woman approaches him and sits down right next to him, lies down right next to him, throws herself all over him. When she sits down right next to him, lies down right next to him, and throws herself all over him, he extricates himself, frees himself, and goes off where he will.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Imagine the scenes vividly, literally -- there's a monk, all serious in his meditation, and then he sees a beautiful woman, and he faints and falls over!
I can't quite pinpoint why, but I think this is hilarious. And then the last scene -- a woman throws herself all over a monk, and yet he extricates himself and goes as he will.
I always laugh when I think of this.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
justindesilva
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Re: The Buddha displaying sense of humor

Post by justindesilva »

binocular wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:07 pm
thepea wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:19 pm Isn’t the goal to be joyful and happy?
That's not the same as humor.

Which brings us back to the original point: What is it about some passages from the suttas that they seem humorous to some people?
Is it not fare to suggest that lord budda aimed satire snd or humour to the one who was listening for an explanation and not for his enjoyment. It is well known that lord buddha was concerned about the psyche of the listener. And it does not mean that lord budda enjoyed satire. But I suggest that he used it seriously to explain the facts.
User1249x
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Re: The Buddha displaying sense of humor

Post by User1249x »

well having a sense or understanding that other people will think it is funny is the same thing so i actually think it ok to say he had "a perfect sense of humor"

im sorry i speculated about the Tathagata itt, outta here.
Last edited by User1249x on Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
J.Lee.Nelson
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Re: The Buddha displaying sense of humor

Post by J.Lee.Nelson »

Maybe it was meant to be funny and maybe it wasn't but when I came across this today, I couldn't help but laugh out loud, literally:
If, on reflecting, he realizes that there are evil, unskillful mental qualities unabandoned by him that would be an obstruction for him were he to die in the night, then he should put forth extra desire, effort, diligence, endeavor, undivided mindfulness, & alertness for the abandoning of those very same evil, unskillful qualities. Just as when a person whose turban or head was on fire would put forth extra desire, effort, diligence, endeavor, undivided mindfulness, & alertness to put out the fire on his turban or head, in the same way the monk should put forth extra desire, effort, diligence, endeavor, undivided mindfulness, & alertness for the abandoning of those very same evil, unskillful qualities.
The passage is from the "Maranassati Sutta: Mindfulness of Death" (https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html). If it was intentionally funny, it shows that the Buddha could be a bit tongue-in-cheek at times.

During a silent 10-day retreat I took in January, I had a brief insight (correct or not, you can decide) about the nature of joviality. It all starts with the fact that at this retreat there was exceptionally good vegetarian food. The problem with such food is that it usually includes beans and other things that give everyone gas, so that even by the morning of the third day our questionably ventilated dhamma hall was starting to smell...not so fresh.

So when I sat down for lunch on the third day and dug into the heavenly-smelling "Beetroot Borsch" and encountered a gargantuan chunk of cabbage and a large white bean (two of the very worst things that give me gas) I thought to myself, "Oh. My. God. Are they trying to gas us to death with our own farts?!" and then I began giggling uncontrollably. :lol: I stepped away from the table to try to calm myself down, but as soon as I sat back down and saw that chunk of cabbage, I began giggling again. :rofl: So, I took my bowl and plopped myself in the middle of a patch of grass, far away from the others. I felt like I just had to tell someone this stupid joke (either that or Ajahn Brahm's really good fart joke about the "enlightened" monk who lived on an island the middle of a lake) or else I would explode. Why?

It wasn't true, helpful, kind, or timely, so why say it? The only reason I could see for wanting to share the thought with anyone else was me-making. I wanted to show the others that I was funny, friendly, something of a connoisseur of food, and someone who was not "cracking" under the pressure of the Vow of Silence—really, I just thought of something funny! Just like the woman who quietly apologized to my roommate in our room about kicking her in the dhamma hall, just like the unknown woman who couldn't stop herself from making pinecone sculptures on the benches in the walking trail even though the management specifically told us not to, just like all the other people I'd been laughing at for all their me-making for the first three days of the retreat, I was no different in wanting to create an image of myself in the minds of others, even if I was trying so very, very hard not to.

This insight made me realize that all of my seriousness and strenuous effort in the first few days of the retreat were mostly due to my me-making to myself: "I came here to work! I am a hard-worker! I am not like these other people who don't know what they're doing! I would have written 'Enlightenment or Bust' on the back of the car, except I know perfectly well that one can't possibly get enlightenment in these circumstances! I'm definitely not one of those people with ridiculously high expectations!" Even the irresistible urge to tell my bird story to the assistant teacher was me me-making myself as "I am a good Buddhist! I am a person who believes in rebirth and kamma! I have potential!" I thought about Ajahn Sumedho's story about his early years as a monk who was perhaps too strict about the Vinaya and his hard time trying to be a vegan in Thailand. I resolved to take things a little easier and be more compassionate with myself and others.

Obviously, I'm still hung up on this sense of self ("I am a person who has insights! I am a person who tries to be helpful to others! I am a person who is not afraid of sharing embarrassing stories! I am mindful and compassionate! I am a person who reads the suttas! I am a person who has gone on a 10-day Vipassana retreat! I am definitely NOT a sotapanna!" :twothumbsup: ) but I feel that at least I am aware of my me-making when it's happening ... or not. :shrug: ("I am a person who is mindful of me-making! No, wait, maybe I'm not. Was I me-making this morning when I was doing laundry? Hmmmm...")

TL;DR: If you find something the Buddha says to be funny, consider if "It is spoken at the right time. It is spoken in truth. It is spoken affectionately. It is spoken beneficially. It is spoken with a mind of good-will." (AN 5.198) If so, it may have been intentional. If none of those things apply and it just establishes the Buddha as a funny guy, then you're probably imagining it.

Oh, and if you ever find yourself at a Silent Retreat and you have a joke inside you that makes you giggle uncontrollably, just find a secluded corner and tell yourself that joke (in your head, not out loud) again and again and again, "ad nauseum" in the fullest sense of the phrase.
binocular
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Re: The Buddha displaying sense of humor

Post by binocular »

justindesilva wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:59 pm
binocular wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:07 pmWhich brings us back to the original point: What is it about some passages from the suttas that they seem humorous to some people?
Is it not fare to suggest that lord budda aimed satire snd or humour to the one who was listening for an explanation and not for his enjoyment. It is well known that lord buddha was concerned about the psyche of the listener. And it does not mean that lord budda enjoyed satire. But I suggest that he used it seriously to explain the facts.
Indeed. And I think it would be helpful to explore our deeply held notions about humor and seriousness, and possibly broaden them.

My stream of thoughts -- "To be a Buddhist means to be serious about life. It means not to laugh. To be serious about Buddhist practice is to grit my teeth and bear it. To have a serious, earnest look on my face. To think 24/7 how horrible life is." -- Which, upon second thought, seems overdone, a contrived seriousness. And when this contrived seriousness is the background, things look different, some things look more funny than they probably otherwise would be.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
dharmacorps
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Re: The Buddha displaying sense of humor

Post by dharmacorps »

Thanissaro Bhikkhu wrote a book called "The Buddha Smiles" which includes humorous parts of the Canon, and explanations of the Buddha's humor. Unfortunately for us, the Buddha's sense of humor was often in word-play, which you have to have a fairly advanced understanding of Pali to even pick up on.

My favorite Buddha zinger, The Magandiya Sutta: “But those who grasped after marks and philosophical views, they wander about in the world annoying people.”

I also liked that the Buddha called one of the first disciples, named "Anya", "Anya Kandanya" which means "Anya understands", because while hearing the fire sermon, Anya became enlightened, and his first words were "Kandanya" (I understand). Nothing outrageous humor-wise, but cute.
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mikenz66
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Re: The Buddha displaying sense of humor

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi dharmacorps.
dharmacorps wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:22 pm I also liked that the Buddha called one of the first disciples, named "Anya", "Anya Kandanya" which means "Anya understands", because while hearing the fire sermon, Anya became enlightened, and his first words were "Kandanya" (I understand). Nothing outrageous humor-wise, but cute.
There is some nice wordplay there, in fact, more than I can decipher from my meagure knowledge of Pali. However, I think you mean the Dhamma­cakka­ppavattana Sutta: https://suttacentral.net/sn56.11
This is what the Blessed One said. Elated, the bhikkhus of the group of five delighted in the Blessed One’s statement. And while this discourse was being spoken, there arose in the Venerable Kondañña the dust-free, stainless vision of the Dhamma: “Whatever is subject to origination is all subject to cessation.”
...
Then the Blessed One uttered this inspired utterance: “Koṇḍañña has indeed understood! Koṇḍañña has indeed understood!” In this way the Venerable Koṇḍañña acquired the name “Añña Koṇḍañña—Koṇḍañña Who Has Understood.”
Also, I think you also have the words mixed up, since aññā refers to understanding:
Aññā (f.) [Sk. ājñā, = ā + jñā, cp. ājānāti] knowledge, recognition, perfect knowledge, philosophic insight, knowledge par excellence...
http://dsalsrv02.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/p ... 1:306.pali
:heart:
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thepea
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Re: The Buddha displaying sense of humor

Post by thepea »

binocular wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:07 pm
thepea wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:19 pm Isn’t the goal to be joyful and happy?
That's not the same as humor.

Which brings us back to the original point: What is it about some passages from the suttas that they seem humorous to some people?
I just don’t understand why anyone would think that the enlightened ones would not have the ability to recognize humor.
If a master is able to see their students suffering and help them to navigate this why would they not be able to see the same humor their students find funny.
binocular
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Re: The Buddha displaying sense of humor

Post by binocular »

thepea wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:04 am
binocular wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:07 pm
thepea wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:19 pmIsn’t the goal to be joyful and happy?
That's not the same as humor.

Which brings us back to the original point: What is it about some passages from the suttas that they seem humorous to some people?
I just don’t understand why anyone would think that the enlightened ones would not have the ability to recognize humor.
If a master is able to see their students suffering and help them to navigate this why would they not be able to see the same humor their students find funny.
??
It's not about the ability to recognize humor -- where did you get that??

It's that humor is something quite different than joy or happiness. A miserable, unhappy person can still recognize humor, and laugh (this is how there are so many depressed comedians). The highly advanced possibly have no need for humor or see it as detrimental.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
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cappuccino
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Re: The Buddha displaying sense of humor

Post by cappuccino »

“Bhikkhus, in the Vinaya of the noble ones, singing is wailing, dancing is madness, and laughing excessively, displaying one’s teeth, is infantile. Therefore, bhikkhus, demolish the bridge that leads to singing, demolish the bridge that leads to dancing, and when rejoicing in the Dhamma you may simply show a smile.”
Ruṇṇa Sutta
thepea
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Re: The Buddha displaying sense of humor

Post by thepea »

binocular wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:44 pm ??
It's not about the ability to recognize humor -- where did you get that??

It's that humor is something quite different than joy or happiness. A miserable, unhappy person can still recognize humor, and laugh (this is how there are so many depressed comedians). The highly advanced possibly have no need for humor or see it as detrimental.
Ok I guess from the title of the thread I assumed the general argument was the Buddha did not have a sense of humour.
Comedians can be depressed because of the stress of always feeling like your on or have to be funny.
Acting like a class clown i agree is detrimental to practice but seeing humour in day to day activities is joyful and uplifting this is necessary trait for teachers when working with new meditators. If your students get depressed a good teacher can be uplifting. He/ she doesn’t have to come off as a comedian but they can use humour to lift spirits occasionally.
binocular
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Re: The Buddha displaying sense of humor

Post by binocular »

thepea wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:24 pm seeing humour in day to day activities is joyful and uplifting this is necessary trait for teachers when working with new meditators. If your students get depressed a good teacher can be uplifting. He/ she doesn’t have to come off as a comedian but they can use humour to lift spirits occasionally.
This doesn't seem right to me. In my experience, it is not possible to actually lift one's spirit with humor. Humor can indeed distract one from some trouble one is otherwise thinking about; but it's still just a distraction, and afterwards, one has as much trouble as one had before, if not more, but less time.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
J.Lee.Nelson
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Re: The Buddha displaying sense of humor

Post by J.Lee.Nelson »

binocular wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:45 pm
thepea wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:24 pm seeing humour in day to day activities is joyful and uplifting this is necessary trait for teachers when working with new meditators. If your students get depressed a good teacher can be uplifting. He/ she doesn’t have to come off as a comedian but they can use humour to lift spirits occasionally.
This doesn't seem right to me. In my experience, it is not possible to actually lift one's spirit with humor. Humor can indeed distract one from some trouble one is otherwise thinking about; but it's still just a distraction, and afterwards, one has as much trouble as one had before, if not more, but less time.
Then I dare say you've never been in one of the S.N. Goenka 10-day Vipassana retreats, have you? The way feeling of the dhamma hall becomes almost palpably lighter, more hopeful, more energized when he makes his jokes during the dhamma talks! Some of my best meditations were in the last 45-minute meditation after the dhamma talks because the burdens on my heart were relieved through the skillful means of humor—in particular conceits of "oh, I'm having such a hard time, harder than anyone else". When he tells us what we're going through, poking fun at us, and we're all laughing, the collective laughter makes us realize we're not that special or unusually impaired. It could just be a cultural thing, though.
thepea
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Re: The Buddha displaying sense of humor

Post by thepea »

binocular wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:45 pm This doesn't seem right to me. In my experience, it is not possible to actually lift one's spirit with humor. Humor can indeed distract one from some trouble one is otherwise thinking about; but it's still just a distraction, and afterwards, one has as much trouble as one had before, if not more, but less time.
You are correct in that it is a temporary relief and is not a cure. But as J. Lee Nelson mentions on retreat working as Buddha taught one can bring up some heavy kamma. Ideally the meditator observes this with calm and equiminity but as we all know this isnt usually the case. A lot of the time people stop observing calmly and they panic and start to doubt that this is good for them or if there is something wrong with them. The thought comes “this is not for me, I should stop this and run away”, a good teacher knows that their student upon embarking on this path will be experiencing this and can use humor to lighten the mood or temporarily lift the spirits of those who may be thinking of quitting the path, if some discourses from Buddha seem humorous they probably were and I imagine him laughing while giving them.
When working with more experienced meditators this is not necessary and I would imagine a teacher taking a more serious attitude and directing students to deeper states and not distracting them with humour. But no matter how experienced I image a teacher could use humour as necessary to help students as they see fit.
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