I knew that you are going to ask this question. I was going to clarify it right away but decided not to and leave it just in case you wouldn't ask. Oh well, since you make the note..User1249x wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:04 amGreen could be refuted by asking How is the public to belive that this monk attained the supposed Attainment;pinit29 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:44 am
You asked: How do you derive all that from the stuff you have posted ITT or in general, without residue? I actually read/heard from a monk teaching about Characteristics of Sotapanna. This monk is well-known in my country. It is believed that he had attained nibbana.
Sotapanna is the one who walk in the noble path. It is believed that once you are Sotapanna, you will have to be rebirth at most 7 times before attaining nibbana. Do you see?..They do not have time to fool around especially in the realm of hell.
7 times of rebirth of Sotapanna will most likely be in this realm (human world). And in order to ensure (100% certain) that anyone will be rebirth in the human realm is to keep 1st 5 Sila pure.
I want to discuss more but I'm kindda busy today. I'll give more comment tonight.
In my country, it is believed that the only proof of one being Arahant is that after his death, his Sankhara (compounded things: blood, nails hair, etc) has to become Arahant relic. And this is the case for this monk I was talking about.
This is why I said the topic itself will lead us to square 1. Since the attackers side will only accept concrete evidence such as it has to be said in Suta...User1249x wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:04 am
On structure of the argument of the Opposition;
If "X" & "Y "are "true" it does not mean that "Z" is "true", it can make "Z" "possible" or "impossible" if it expresses a statement about Z but it does not prove "Z" to be true in this case.
statement "X";
It is believed that once you are Sotapanna, you will have to be rebirth at most 7 times before attaining nibbana
Statement "Y";
7 times of rebirth of Sotapanna will most likely be in this realm (human world)
and/or
And in order to ensure (100% certain) that anyone will be rebirth in the human realm is to keep 1st 5 Sila pure.
Statement "Z"
"Sotapanna cannot break Five Precepts, only this is true, nothing else is possible"
This is what needs to be rightfully established by direct statement or implication using the Tipitaka if you want to prove it is not a view.
Anyway, the best I can find to persuade you is from Dhama Home website, it said, "Attaining the first stage of Nibbana (Sotapanna stage) will remove suffering in the apayas forever, which could be more than billions or even trillions of years."
By the way, Apayas mean (lower worlds such as hell). I don't know if this make any logic sense to you or not. But for my logic sense, breaking any one of five percepts may lead us to the Apayas realms. Even if it's only one time things of breaking percepts, there still leave some possibilities to fall into Apayas realms. So, the only conclusion for the Sotapanna to have 0% chance of falling into Apayas realms is, not to break any percepts, not even once. Period!
Dhama Home website: https://puredhamma.net/three-levels-of- ... or-brahma/