Challenging Position "Sotapanna Can break Five Precepts, it is possible, it can happen."

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pinit29
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Re: Challenging Position "Sotapanna Can break Five Precepts, it is possible, it can happen."

Post by pinit29 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:31 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:07 pm

I do not think you are capable but you are welcome to i would appreciate it greatly, expressed there viewtopic.php?f=22&t=31270
Just read it...You are in deep shi(t) there. Well, not that deep actually. Haha ( not meant to laugh at you)..
Anyway, it's not that clear to me what you're doubting... lets talk over, in that thread.

manas
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Re: Challenging Position "Sotapanna Can break Five Precepts, it is possible, it can happen."

Post by manas » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:14 pm

I suspect that many of us know deep down, whether or not we still have even the slightest, most infinitesimal skeptical doubt regarding the truth of the Buddha's Teaching. I think that if we had absolutely no skeptical doubt at all, we would indeed be 'incapable' of performing any deed by which we could get reborn in the lower realms, just as someone who is not a masochist, for example, won't willingly step onto an upturned nail, because they know it's going to hurt a lot. (Some food for thought, I hope.)
:anjali:

rightviewftw
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Re: Challenging Position "Sotapanna Can break Five Precepts, it is possible, it can happen."

Post by rightviewftw » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:42 pm

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html Canki Sutta: With Canki
...
"But to what extent, Master Gotama, is there the safeguarding of the truth? To what extent does one safeguard the truth? We ask Master Gotama about the safeguarding of the truth."

"If a person has conviction, his statement, 'This is my conviction,' safeguards the truth. But he doesn't yet come to the definite conclusion that 'Only this is true; anything else is worthless.' To this extent, Bharadvaja, there is the safeguarding of the truth. To this extent one safeguards the truth. I describe this as the safeguarding of the truth. But it is not yet an awakening to the truth.

"If a person likes something... holds an unbroken tradition... has something reasoned through analogy... has something he agrees to, having pondered views, his statement, 'This is what I agree to, having pondered views,' safeguards the truth. But he doesn't yet come to the definite conclusion that 'Only this is true; anything else is worthless.' To this extent, Bharadvaja, there is the safeguarding of the truth. To this extent one safeguards the truth. I describe this as the safeguarding of the truth. But it is not yet an awakening to the truth.
...
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

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Nwad
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Re: Challenging Position "Sotapanna Can break Five Precepts, it is possible, it can happen."

Post by Nwad » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:23 am

Sotapanna destroyed, uprooted his personal views, he have no more the belief and experiance of permanent self.
So it is impossible to someone who have no more "i am" cligning to steal somethink or cheat on his wife with thoughts that "this object will be mine now", because the "me" have no power over Sotapanna's mind...

In the same way he can not lie with thoughts "i will say a lie to protect myself from punishment" because there is no "me" who have power over the mind, and he have nothing to hide, his mind is open... Bodily, verbal and mental behavious are pure - he have nothink to lie about, liying for what doing? Saying the truth is always the best solution, peoples are not stupid and if you explain well because of what reasons you acted like this or that - peoples will understand. And if you did somethink with evil intention, and the only explanation of that action is "i want to see some one suffer" that you have to lie about, in that case its a very bad kamma and the best to do is to apologise and make this person your friend and help and protect him...

For someone who saw and touched the Nibbana element in one's mind, even for one moment - it is impossible to destroy any other sentient being life, why? Because he saw the brightness, purity, calm, bliss of the mind and that all sentient beings have the potential to awakening, how now he can destroy their lives?

What is about alcohool, Sotapanna have no need to drink or smoke with thoughts "doing this i will feel happy, light, joyfull, pleasant" because he is already feels good...

Why someone will seek for a match fire while he is on the sunny beach ? Why someone who feel no hungry will eat?

I will not take the debate, sematics/debating/arguing is a void thing bringing suffering and leading nowhere... Its tungle the mind.

Metta

Saengnapha
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Re: Challenging Position "Sotapanna Can break Five Precepts, it is possible, it can happen."

Post by Saengnapha » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:36 am

Nwad wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:23 am
Sotapanna destroyed, uprooted his personal views, he have no more the belief and experiance of permanent self.
So it is impossible to someone who have no more "i am" cligning to steal somethink or cheat on his wife with thoughts that "this object will be mine now", because the "me" have no power over Sotapanna's mind...

In the same way he can not lie with thoughts "i will say a lie to protect myself from punishment" because there is no "me" who have power over the mind, and he have nothing to hide, his mind is open... Bodily, verbal and mental behavious are pure - he have nothink to lie about, liying for what doing? Saying the truth is always the best solution, peoples are not stupid and if you explain well because of what reasons you acted like this or that - peoples will understand. And if you did somethink with evil intention, and the only explanation of that action is "i want to see some one suffer" that you have to lie about, in that case its a very bad kamma and the best to do is to apologise and make this person your friend and help and protect him...

For someone who saw and touched the Nibbana element in one's mind, even for one moment - it is impossible to destroy any other sentient being life, why? Because he saw the brightness, purity, calm, bliss of the mind and that all sentient beings have the potential to awakening, how now he can destroy their lives?

What is about alcohool, Sotapanna have no need to drink or smoke with thoughts "doing this i will feel happy, light, joyfull, pleasant" because he is already feels good...

Why someone will seek for a match fire while he is on the sunny beach ? Why someone who feel no hungry will eat?

I will not take the debate, sematics/debating/arguing is a void thing bringing suffering and leading nowhere... Its tungle the mind.

Metta
Quite simply, there is no such thing as a sotapanna. This is an idea about an imaginary person. No such person exists, Nwad. Haven't you heard? Why chase what doesn't really exist? Does any of this have inherent existence?

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cappuccino
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Re: Challenging Position "Sotapanna Can break Five Precepts, it is possible, it can happen."

Post by cappuccino » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:56 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:36 am
Quite simply, there is no such thing as a sotapanna.

Don't misrepresent the Blessed One. It's not good to misrepresent the Blessed One

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