What is the sixth sense base ?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
chownah
Posts: 7596
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: What is the sixth sense base ?

Post by chownah » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:15 pm

James Tan wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:29 pm

Why mind is capable of conscious of it self and others and matter cannot ?!
...but the mind has no self.
chownah

James Tan
Posts: 1070
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: What is the sixth sense base ?

Post by James Tan » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:31 pm

chownah wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:15 pm
James Tan wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:29 pm

Why mind is capable of conscious of it self and others and matter cannot ?!
...but the mind has no self.
chownah
Well , where is the mind you are talking about ?
There is No mind ! Mind you !

justindesilva
Posts: 839
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:38 pm

Re: What is the sixth sense base ?

Post by justindesilva » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:40 pm

chownah wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:15 pm
James Tan wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:29 pm

Why mind is capable of conscious of it self and others and matter cannot ?!
...but the mind has no self.
chownah
well on this basis what vingnana works with patisandi citta ( citta before rebirth) as there cannot be a form here.

chownah
Posts: 7596
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: What is the sixth sense base ?

Post by chownah » Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:51 am

James Tan wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:31 pm
chownah wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:15 pm
James Tan wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:29 pm

Why mind is capable of conscious of it self and others and matter cannot ?!
...but the mind has no self.
chownah
Well , where is the mind you are talking about ?
The mind I am talking about is the mind you suggest when you said, "Why mind is capable of conscious of it self and others and matter cannot ?!" You talk about some kind of mind which is conscious of itself...but it has no self to be conscious of!
chownah
Last edited by chownah on Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

chownah
Posts: 7596
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: What is the sixth sense base ?

Post by chownah » Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:52 am

justindesilva wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:40 pm
chownah wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:15 pm
James Tan wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:29 pm

Why mind is capable of conscious of it self and others and matter cannot ?!
...but the mind has no self.
chownah
well on this basis what vingnana works with patisandi citta ( citta before rebirth) as there cannot be a form here.
I have no idea what you are talking about.
chownah

James Tan
Posts: 1070
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: What is the sixth sense base ?

Post by James Tan » Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:05 am

chownah wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:51 am
James Tan wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:31 pm
chownah wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:15 pm

...but the mind has no self.
chownah
Well , where is the mind you are talking about ?
The mind I am talking about is the mind you suggest when you said, "Why mind is capable of conscious of it self and others and matter cannot ?!" You talk about some kind of mind which is conscious of itself...but it has no self to be conscious of!
chownah
Being conscious is a kind of property that other matter does not have . No self doesn't mean nothingness .

chownah
Posts: 7596
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: What is the sixth sense base ?

Post by chownah » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:05 am

James Tan wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:05 am
chownah wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:51 am
James Tan wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:31 pm

Well , where is the mind you are talking about ?
The mind I am talking about is the mind you suggest when you said, "Why mind is capable of conscious of it self and others and matter cannot ?!" You talk about some kind of mind which is conscious of itself...but it has no self to be conscious of!
chownah
Being conscious is a kind of property that other matter does not have . No self doesn't mean nothingness .
I'm having a hard time understanding what you are trying to say. Are you saying that mind is a kind of matter that is conscious while other matter is not conscious?
chownah

James Tan
Posts: 1070
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: What is the sixth sense base ?

Post by James Tan » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:18 am

chownah wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:05 am
James Tan wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:05 am
chownah wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:51 am

The mind I am talking about is the mind you suggest when you said, "Why mind is capable of conscious of it self and others and matter cannot ?!" You talk about some kind of mind which is conscious of itself...but it has no self to be conscious of!
chownah
Being conscious is a kind of property that other matter does not have . No self doesn't mean nothingness .
I'm having a hard time understanding what you are trying to say. Are you saying that mind is a kind of matter that is conscious while other matter is not conscious?
chownah
You see , either mind is also a kind of matter and conscious of itself and other phenomena .
Or mind is non matter and totally different from matter .
The question is where is the base called mind ?
Otherwise , we should not called it base because it has no designation .

Dinsdale
Posts: 6117
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: What is the sixth sense base ?

Post by Dinsdale » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:57 am

James Tan wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:18 am
The question is where is the base called mind ?
Otherwise , we should not called it base because it has no designation .
:redherring:
"Base" here refers to function rather than location.

"Sense-door" is perhaps more accurate than "sense-base".
Buddha save me from new-agers!

James Tan
Posts: 1070
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: What is the sixth sense base ?

Post by James Tan » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:42 am

Dinsdale wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:57 am
James Tan wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:18 am
The question is where is the base called mind ?
Otherwise , we should not called it base because it has no designation .
:redherring:
"Base" here refers to function rather than location.

"Sense-door" is perhaps more accurate than "sense-base".
Ok , where is the door ? Which ?

chownah
Posts: 7596
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: What is the sixth sense base ?

Post by chownah » Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:48 pm

James Tan wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:18 am
You see , either mind is also a kind of matter and conscious of itself and other phenomena .
Or mind is non matter and totally different from matter .
I don't think that anyone is trying to say that mind is matter. Even those who are of the view that mind arises in the brain do not think that the brain is the mind....just like the people who are of the view that sight arises in the eye do not think that the eye is sight.
James Tan wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:18 am
The question is where is the base called mind ?
Otherwise , we should not called it base because it has no designation .
I guess it depends on what is meant by "base". Some people are of the view that there are six senses and for instance to consider the eye they think "yes, I have two of those which reside in sockets in the front of my head. For these people the "base" for sight resides in those two lumps of matter which reside in the front of their head. These people have no question about where the "bases" for hearing, smell, taste, and touch reside because the suttas describe them with explicit body parts indicated as the base. Some of these people ask "where is the base for the mind?".....and for me the logical body part which would be used as the base for the mind is the brain......this seems like a no brainer to me.

What I have just said is how some people relate to the senses. Other people view them completely differently. Some people say that the buddha never talks about the lump of matter called the eye but rather he is talking about how we perceive that vision arises.....they consider the eye to be not the thing which gives rise to sight but it is the concept that we use to understand how sight arises....it is a fabrication...it is an explanation of how sight happens. Some of these people will say that if you think that sight arises in the eye then you are making a delusional self called "the eye" and giving it properties. Some of these same people will say that it is better that when there is sight to just see what is seen and not to fabricate a seer or a seen. For some of these people none of the six sense bases are matter....they are mental fabrications.
chownah

James Tan
Posts: 1070
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: What is the sixth sense base ?

Post by James Tan » Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:36 pm

chownah wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:48 pm
James Tan wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:18 am
You see , either mind is also a kind of matter and conscious of itself and other phenomena .
Or mind is non matter and totally different from matter .
I don't think that anyone is trying to say that mind is matter. Even those who are of the view that mind arises in the brain do not think that the brain is the mind....just like the people who are of the view that sight arises in the eye do not think that the eye is sight.
James Tan wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:18 am
The question is where is the base called mind ?
Otherwise , we should not called it base because it has no designation .
I guess it depends on what is meant by "base". Some people are of the view that there are six senses and for instance to consider the eye they think "yes, I have two of those which reside in sockets in the front of my head. For these people the "base" for sight resides in those two lumps of matter which reside in the front of their head. These people have no question about where the "bases" for hearing, smell, taste, and touch reside because the suttas describe them with explicit body parts indicated as the base. Some of these people ask "where is the base for the mind?".....and for me the logical body part which would be used as the base for the mind is the brain......this seems like a no brainer to me.

What I have just said is how some people relate to the senses. Other people view them completely differently. Some people say that the buddha never talks about the lump of matter called the eye but rather he is talking about how we perceive that vision arises.....they consider the eye to be not the thing which gives rise to sight but it is the concept that we use to understand how sight arises....it is a fabrication...it is an explanation of how sight happens. Some of these people will say that if you think that sight arises in the eye then you are making a delusional self called "the eye" and giving it properties. Some of these same people will say that it is better that when there is sight to just see what is seen and not to fabricate a seer or a seen. For some of these people none of the six sense bases are matter....they are mental fabrications.
chownah
Conventionally , we have to refer something with names otherwise we couldn't continue with our conversation . With the eyes there is a seeing , and that doesn't mean there is a self in it .
You didn't give any definite answer . We are not talking about the brain as the mind . But , what being the base of mind !
After all these years , we still unable to sort out what the Buddha said .

chownah
Posts: 7596
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: What is the sixth sense base ?

Post by chownah » Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:54 am

James Tan wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:36 pm
chownah wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:48 pm
James Tan wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:18 am
You see , either mind is also a kind of matter and conscious of itself and other phenomena .
Or mind is non matter and totally different from matter .
I don't think that anyone is trying to say that mind is matter. Even those who are of the view that mind arises in the brain do not think that the brain is the mind....just like the people who are of the view that sight arises in the eye do not think that the eye is sight.
James Tan wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:18 am
The question is where is the base called mind ?
Otherwise , we should not called it base because it has no designation .
I guess it depends on what is meant by "base". Some people are of the view that there are six senses and for instance to consider the eye they think "yes, I have two of those which reside in sockets in the front of my head. For these people the "base" for sight resides in those two lumps of matter which reside in the front of their head. These people have no question about where the "bases" for hearing, smell, taste, and touch reside because the suttas describe them with explicit body parts indicated as the base. Some of these people ask "where is the base for the mind?".....and for me the logical body part which would be used as the base for the mind is the brain......this seems like a no brainer to me.

What I have just said is how some people relate to the senses. Other people view them completely differently. Some people say that the buddha never talks about the lump of matter called the eye but rather he is talking about how we perceive that vision arises.....they consider the eye to be not the thing which gives rise to sight but it is the concept that we use to understand how sight arises....it is a fabrication...it is an explanation of how sight happens. Some of these people will say that if you think that sight arises in the eye then you are making a delusional self called "the eye" and giving it properties. Some of these same people will say that it is better that when there is sight to just see what is seen and not to fabricate a seer or a seen. For some of these people none of the six sense bases are matter....they are mental fabrications.
chownah
Conventionally , we have to refer something with names otherwise we couldn't continue with our conversation . With the eyes there is a seeing , and that doesn't mean there is a self in it .
You didn't give any definite answer . We are not talking about the brain as the mind . But , what being the base of mind !
After all these years , we still unable to sort out what the Buddha said .
I did give a definite answer. I said that for those who view the six senses as being arising from bodily structures then the brain can clearly act as the base for the mind.....and I said that for some other people the bases for all of the six senses are mental fabrications.
It depends on what you mean by "base".....something which you have not definitely defined. If you defined "base" then the discussion might be more understandable.

What do you see as the "base" for the eye?....for example..
chownah

James Tan
Posts: 1070
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: What is the sixth sense base ?

Post by James Tan » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:30 am

chownah wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:54 am
James Tan wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:36 pm
chownah wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:48 pm

I don't think that anyone is trying to say that mind is matter. Even those who are of the view that mind arises in the brain do not think that the brain is the mind....just like the people who are of the view that sight arises in the eye do not think that the eye is sight.

I guess it depends on what is meant by "base". Some people are of the view that there are six senses and for instance to consider the eye they think "yes, I have two of those which reside in sockets in the front of my head. For these people the "base" for sight resides in those two lumps of matter which reside in the front of their head. These people have no question about where the "bases" for hearing, smell, taste, and touch reside because the suttas describe them with explicit body parts indicated as the base. Some of these people ask "where is the base for the mind?".....and or me the logical body part which would be used as the base for the mind is the brain......this seems like a no brainer to me.

What I have just said is how some people relate to the senses. Other people view them completely differently. Some people say that the buddha never talks about the lump of matter called the eye but rather he is talking about how we perceive that vision arises.....they consider the eye to be not the thing which gives rise to sight but it is the concept that we use to understand how sight arises....it is a fabrication...it is an explanation of how sight happens. Some of these people will say that if you think that sight arises in the eye then you are making a delusional self called "the eye" and giving it properties. Some of these same people will say that it is better that when there is sight to just see what is seen and not to fabricate a seer or a seen. For some of these people none of the six sense bases are matter....they are mental fabrications.
chownah
Conventionally , we have to refer something with names otherwise we couldn't continue with our conversation . With the eyes there is a seeing , and that doesn't mean there is a self in it .
You didn't give any definite answer . We are not talking about the brain as the mind . But , what being the base of mind !
After all these years , we still unable to sort out what the Buddha said .
I did give a definite answer. I said that for those who view the six senses as being arising from bodily structures then the brain can clearly act as the base for the mind.....and I said that for some other people the bases for all of the six senses are mental fabrications.
It depends on what you mean by "base".....something which you have not definitely defined. If you defined "base" then the discussion might be more understandable.

What do you see as the "base" for the eye?....for example..
chownah
No that is what others said not you .
Your question seems problematic ,
Base for the eyes ?
I thought the sutta stated that ,
the eyes(6 senses) as the base for sight to arise etc .

chownah
Posts: 7596
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: What is the sixth sense base ?

Post by chownah » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:50 am

James Tan wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:30 am
chownah wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:54 am
James Tan wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:36 pm


Conventionally , we have to refer something with names otherwise we couldn't continue with our conversation . With the eyes there is a seeing , and that doesn't mean there is a self in it .
You didn't give any definite answer . We are not talking about the brain as the mind . But , what being the base of mind !
After all these years , we still unable to sort out what the Buddha said .
I did give a definite answer. I said that for those who view the six senses as being arising from bodily structures then the brain can clearly act as the base for the mind.....and I said that for some other people the bases for all of the six senses are mental fabrications.
It depends on what you mean by "base".....something which you have not definitely defined. If you defined "base" then the discussion might be more understandable.

What do you see as the "base" for the eye?....for example..
chownah
No that is what others said not you .
Your question seems problematic ,
Base for the eyes ?
I thought the sutta stated that ,
the eyes(6 senses) as the base for sight to arise etc .
Go back and read the sutta you brought on page 1 of this thread....it doesn't state anything about a "base".
I think I have explained my views on this and you just don't seem to understand so that's ok but unless I think of some other way to explain then I will stop posting.
chownah

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