What is vipassana and anapanasati?

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thepea
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Re: What is vipassana and anapanasati?

Post by thepea » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:34 am

Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:06 am
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html that is the sutta thepea.
Thanks, they must have been mentally unbalanced monks for sixty of them to commit suicide.
Seems a bit far fetched, I don’t buy it.
And why wouldn’t Buddha have foreseen this and put a stop to the insanity, or someone go tell him.
Doesn’t strike me as a good way to run your meditation retreat. To go off in seclusion not to be disturbed while your students commit mass suicide.
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Re: What is vipassana and anapanasati?

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:43 am

excrement is foul, it is described as being unpleasant. it is compared to defilements, this is separate from equanimity. in fact a sutta i read recently comes to mind that mentions being equanimous to what is foul (as i recall it). better yet, here you will read the comparison that is not an exaggeration, as an arahant is saying it: https://suttacentral.net/en/an9.15
we really are that deluded to find flesh beings attractive
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Re: What is vipassana and anapanasati?

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:47 am

if i contemplate it a while i might come up with an answer, but i suggest doing the same, consider that your view is wrong and the dhamma is right and this is authentic dhamma
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

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Re: What is vipassana and anapanasati?

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:48 am

last comment @ thepea
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

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Re: What is vipassana and anapanasati?

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:50 am

not saying your view is necessarily wrong, just that it is not necessarily right. defer to kālāma sutta
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

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Re: What is vipassana and anapanasati?

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:01 am

“Bhikkhus, these seven factors of enlightenment, when developed and cultivated, lead to utter revulsion, to dispassion, to cessation, to peace, to direct knowledge, to enlightenment, to Nibbāna. What seven? The enlightenment factor of mindfulness … the enlightenment factor of equanimity. These seven factors of enlightenment … lead to Nibbāna.”
https://suttacentral.net/en/sn46.20
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"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught

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Re: What is vipassana and anapanasati?

Post by DooDoot » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:05 am

JC938 wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:57 pm
What is vipassana and anapanasati and are there any other meditations type in Buddhism.
'Sati' means 'to govern' sense experience with 'active wisdom' ('sampajanna'); which results in the establishment of a mind without craving. When the mind is established without craving, the breathing will naturally become the primary sense object of the mind. This experience is called 'Anapanasati', namely, having mindfulness when knowing breathing.

'Vipassana" means to 'see clearly' the impermanent, unsatisfactory & not-self nature of conditioned phenomena. For example, when practising Anapanasati, it can be clearly seen how each in-breath is impermanent & how each out-breath is impermanent.

Therefore, Anapanasati & Vipassana are not different types of meditations. Instead, Vipassana is something that occurs when Anapanasati is practised.

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Re: What is vipassana and anapanasati?

Post by JC938 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:02 am

Thanks everyone.

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Re: What is vipassana and anapanasati?

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:17 am

Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:01 am
I assume the revolting part was to me, it is hard to tell when you do not quote.

I understand what you are saying but i think further discussion in this direction is going to lead to me saying "it is revolting as that sutta says" but still my post on aversion was rightfully said in meaning it carries. Whatever aversion one feels for the body to begin with that is the aversion there, one should not practice Aversion to the body or give a student an impression that that is what he is supposed to cultivate.
Whatever aversion one feels for the body to begin with is the aversion there
is also why it works vs infatuation btw

And the aversion in the Revulsion Sutta(just read your quote), refers to realization of the 1st Noble Truth as far as i can tell, complete revulsion with Suffering by direct realization of Not-Suffering.

Similar context thing as saying;
One out to kill anger
or Tathagata killed Devadatta

But it is different a bit in regards to the Noble Attainment of Truth about Suffering and having direct realization of the Cessation of Suffering, they are all unique context is what i mean.


This is jumping out of contexts and if you dont really have a problem with what i said i think it is better to leave it.
How to Destroy any addiction
How to Meditate: Satipatthana Mahasi
Медитация Сатипаттхана Випассана
How To Develop Factors of Enlightenment & Perceptions
Complete Manual of Insight by Mahasi Sayadaw
Tyranny of Words - An Introduction to General Semantics
Ledi Sayadaw's Anapana Dipani (Samatha) @ ffmt.fr/articles/maitres/LediS/anapana-dipani.ledi-sayadaw.pdf
Dhammapada @ myweb.ncku.edu.tw/~lsn46/tipitaka/sutta/khuddaka/dhammapada/dhp-contrast-reading/dhp-contrast-reading-en/
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Re: What is vipassana and anapanasati?

Post by pinit29 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:54 am

Annapanasati and vipassana are different things but they are closely related.

Annapanasati is the form of concentration on the breathing (in and out). We can say that Annapanasati gives birth to all Bhavana (Samatha and Vipasssana). Any Bhavana that lack of Annapanasati is not sama-samadhi. Once you practice annapanasati, you will have a choice to either go to the way of Samatha or Vipassana.

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Re: What is vipassana and anapanasati?

Post by pinit29 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:46 am

thepea wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:32 pm
Virgo wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:17 pm

You claim that meditating on a corpse is wrong concentration, but the Buddha taught it, and did not call it wrong concentration even once as far as I am aware of.

Kevin
It is concentration but it is not free from craving and aversion. How can this lead to liberative wisdom?
It is helpful to regain composure when mind is full of lust.
If you can concentrate on breath no need to think about corpses at all, entirely unneccessary.
You have the wrong understading about asubha meditation (meditating on corpse). The purpose of this meditation is to let your jitta see the truth about human body that it is not neat, it is not beautiful as it looks. If we peel out our skins, you will see all kind of ugly and nasty stuffs. By doing asubha meditating, you jitta will understand little by little that
1. The one of the 4 noble truth (dukka) is real. Everybody has to face it someday.
2. The fact that our bodies are not beautiful.
3. Tilakkhana (3 signs of being:anicca, dukka, and anattala) is absolute.

When your jitta sees this, you will gain a wisdom and such, your jitta will let go of Atta (self) little by little. And of couse, once your jitta starts letting Atta(self), your jitta will also let go of Tanha (carving) and Kilesa (impurities).

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Re: What is vipassana and anapanasati?

Post by Dinsdale » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:20 am

JC938 wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:57 pm
What is vipassana and anapanasati and are there any other meditations type in Buddhism.
Basically vipassana ( insight ) and samatha ( tranquillity ) are qualities of mind to be developed.

Anapanasati is a method.
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Re: What is vipassana and anapanasati?

Post by thepea » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:28 am

pinit29 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:46 am

You have the wrong understading about asubha meditation (meditating on corpse). The purpose of this meditation is to let your jitta see the truth about human body that it is not neat, it is not beautiful as it looks. If we peel out our skins, you will see all kind of ugly and nasty stuffs. By doing asubha meditating, you jitta will understand little by little that
1. The one of the 4 noble truth (dukka) is real. Everybody has to face it someday.
2. The fact that our bodies are not beautiful.
3. Tilakkhana (3 signs of being:anicca, dukka, and anattala) is absolute.

When your jitta sees this, you will gain a wisdom and such, your jitta will let go of Atta (self) little by little. And of couse, once your jitta starts letting Atta(self), your jitta will also let go of Tanha (carving) and Kilesa (impurities).
Corpse meditation is not Bhavana-maya maya Panna it wisdom based from a combination of listening and observing others and thinking on this. It is not direct wisdom of experience.
Perhaps this is why monks took up the knife the we’re trying to see if this truth was within them also. Cutting open their bodies?
Even this is not Bhavana-maya Panna it cannot break the bonds to liberation.
The bond is broken from sensation(Vedana) and sankhara(reaction) or non reaction. The non reaction is which cuts the bond and liberates.

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Re: What is vipassana and anapanasati?

Post by pinit29 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:14 pm

thepea wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:28 am
pinit29 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:46 am

You have the wrong understading about asubha meditation (meditating on corpse). The purpose of this meditation is to let your jitta see the truth about human body that it is not neat, it is not beautiful as it looks. If we peel out our skins, you will see all kind of ugly and nasty stuffs. By doing asubha meditating, you citta will understand little by little that
1. The one of the 4 noble truth (dukka) is real. Everybody has to face it someday.
2. The fact that our bodies are not beautiful.
3. Tilakkhana (3 signs of being:anicca, dukka, and anattala) is absolute.

When your citta sees this, you will gain a wisdom and such, your citta will let go of Atta (self) little by little. And of couse, once your citta starts letting Atta(self), your citta will also let go of Tanha (carving) and Kilesa (impurities).
Corpse meditation is not Bhavana-maya maya Panna it wisdom based from a combination of listening and observing others and thinking on this. It is not direct wisdom of experience.
Perhaps this is why monks took up the knife the we’re trying to see if this truth was within them also. Cutting open their bodies?
Even this is not Bhavana-maya Panna it cannot break the bonds to liberation.
The bond is broken from sensation(Vedana) and sankhara(reaction) or non reaction. The non reaction is which cuts the bond and liberates.
Still a misunderstanding there. How could you say that monks commited suicide because of asubha mediation. Were you there witnessing what's going on?

Anyway, I am not arguing that there was not such the case that some monks comitted suicide. What I heard is that some of those monks who comitted suicide, believed that they have attained nirvana and they felt like there is no attachment to this world, no point of continuing living. However, this is wrong doing. If only they have sammasankappa (right thought), sammaditthi (right understanding, right mind), sammasati (right mindful), and sammasamadhi (right concentration), they wouldn't have done that.

In asubha medition, you have to consider the death bodies with sammasankappa (right thought) and sammaditthi (right understanding, right mind).

How??? You have to consider that our bodies consists of non-beautiful things. Under our skins consist of ugly and nasty stuffs. Do we know this? Yes, we do. But does your citta know this? No, not actually. So, the purpose of doing asubha meditating is to teach your citta this, to let your citta learn. And of course, while you are considering the death body, you have to take the Tilakkhana (3 signs of being:anicca, dukka, and anattala) into consideration as well.

Anicca: our bodies keeps aging and decaying all the time. From baby to grown up. From grown up to elder. From elder to death. And some unfortunate one dies even before getting old. And once we dies, the bodies still keeps decaying until nothing left.
Dukka: if we are so attaching with these bodies, trying not look old or get old while in fact we cannot avoid it, it will only lead us Dukka(pain and suffering).
Anattala: Everthing including our bodies is actually not ours. Because if it is really ours, then we should be able to control it. But can we stop our bodies from aging, from decaying? NO...

If you are willing to open up, you will see that..

With sammasankappa (right thought) and sammaditthi (right understanding, right mind), your citta will see Tilakkhana (3 signs of being:anicca, dukka, and anattal).
And with Tilakhana, your citta will have less and less Atta (self or ego) and then you citta will have less Tanha(carving). Once you have less Tanha, then of course you will have less kilesa(impurities: Dosa (hatred), Moha (delusion), and Lobha (greed))

And once your citta can see all things as
Tilakkhana (3 signs of being:anicca, dukka, and anattal), you will attain nirvana.
Last edited by pinit29 on Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

thepea
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Re: What is vipassana and anapanasati?

Post by thepea » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:24 pm

pinit29 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:14 pm

Still a misunderstanding there. How could you say that monks commited suicide because of asubha mediation. Were you there witnessing what's going on?

Anyway, I am not arguing that there was not such the case that some monks comitted suicide. What I heard is that some of those monks who comitted suicide, believed that they have attained nirvana and they felt like there is no attachment to this world, no point of continuing living. However, this is wrong doing. If only they have sammasankappa (right thought), sammaditthi (right understanding, right mind), sammasati (right mindful), and sammasamadhi (right concentration), they wouldn't have done that.

In asubha medition, you have to consider the death bodies with sammasankappa (right thought) and sammaditthi (right understanding, right mind).

How??? You have to consider that our bodies consists of non-beautiful things. Under our skins consist of ugly and nasty stuffs. Do we know this? Yes, we do. But does your jitta know this? No, not actually. So, the purpose of doing asubha meditating is to teach your Jitta this, to let your Jitta learn. And of course, while you are considering the death body, you have to take the Tilakkhana (3 signs of being:anicca, dukka, and anattala) into consideration as well.

Anicca: our bodies keeps aging and decaying all the time. From baby to grown up. From grown up to elder. From elder to death. And some unfortunate one dies even before getting old. And once we dies, the bodies still keeps decaying until nothing left.
Dukka: if we are so attaching with these bodies, trying not look old or get old while in fact we cannot avoid it, it will only lead us Dukka(pain and suffering).
Anattala: Everthing including our bodies is actually not ours. Because if it is really ours, then we should be able to control it. But can we stop our bodies from aging, from decaying? NO...

If you are willing to open up, you will see that..

With sammasankappa (right thought) and sammaditthi (right understanding, right mind), your jitta will see Tilakkhana (3 signs of being:anicca, dukka, and anattal).
And with Tilakhana, your jitta will have less and less Atta (self or ego) and then you jitta will have less Tanha(carving). Once you have less Tanha, then of course you will have less kilesa(impurities: Dosa (hatred), Moha (delusion), and Lobha (greed))

And once your jitta can see all things as
Tilakkhana (3 signs of being:anicca, dukka, and anattal), you will attain nirvana.
Firstly, I did not say the monks committed suicide because of this reason or that reason I said “perhaps” to promote discussion. I have no concrete evidence that this event even took place it could be a bunch of bullshit made up by someone deluded and passed on from generation to generation. Notice I said “it could”.

Secondly, I have never seen this sutta before and from reading it I’m not sure how you can come to the conclusions that monks thought they had attained nirvana
As I can’t see that anywhere. The conclusion I come to is Buddha was negligent and his students suffered. If angulimala can become an arahantship what did these poor buggers do to deserve this neglect from their teacher.

Thirdly, what does Jitta mean, I googled it and it says “mastery” I don’t know what that means in the context your using it?

Fourthly, I’m not disagreeing with you on content of practice of corpse meditation, I just don’t feel it is liberative wisdom. I feel it is beneficial when one is distracted by form, but it is not at a subtle enough level to sever the bonds of rebirth.

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