Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:20 am

DooDoot wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:17 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:49 pm
It is not right that a being spends his time delighting in sense pleasure, becoming lustful he becomes infatuated by sense pleasures, pleasurable ideas he likes to entertain, pleasurable sounds he seeks out, pleasurable sight objects does he seek.
rightviewftw wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:07 pm
Ye it's allure is very strong i have not been able to kick it yet either i think it is most difficult when living in the city.
In my opinion, music is a very trivial thing. If music itself is an obstacle to Dhamma practice then, in my opinion, there must not be a strong motivation for Dhamma practice. Its like saying a feather in a box is an obstacle to lifting the box. In reality, it is the heavy things in the box that are obstacles to lifting the box rather than the feather. Often music is part of a box of sensual pleasures, such as in the phrase "sex-drugs-rock-&-roll". If the wrong sex & drugs are abandoned, music is generally not a big deal or obstacle.
just speaking from personal experience i find music highly distracting; maybe it's pop music? but even buddhist songs like the imee ooi i find intolerable and turn off as fast as i can
that was one of the first things i let go of and thinking back on it vs now i'm able to retain a clearer mind with less worry. less passion, more focus
i suspect that this is the true nature of music but that tolerance and even mild enjoyment are conditioned. interesting analysis tho with the 'sex drugs and rock n roll', i bet there is validity to that and dn 31 agrees. still in another sutta or maybe it is the vinaya singing and dancing are compared to wailing and madness,

blessings
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— Ud 5.5

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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by DooDoot » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:25 am

Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:20 am
even buddhist songs like the imee ooi i find intolerable and turn off as fast as i can
:thumbsup:
Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:20 am
interesting analysis tho with the 'sex drugs and rock n roll', i bet there is validity to that and dn 31 agrees.
Thanks
Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:20 am
still in another sutta or maybe it is the vinaya singing and dancing are compared to wailing and madness
Even before Buddhism, I thought dancing was madness. But some music is elevated & has good messages. While I rarely listen to music, it has never hindered my mind (ever since i gave up sex & drugs).

:anjali:

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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by dylanj » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:48 am

SDC wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:31 pm
The staff currently has no plans to use the suttas to enforce conduct on the forum.
This would be fantastic
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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binocular
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by binocular » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:56 am

Mr Man wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:08 pm
So performers are responsible for the intoxicated & heedless mind states of others?
It would be wrong to say that performers are responsible for the intoxicated & heedless mind states of others; that would be an overstatement.
But performers generally want others to become intoxicated & heedless, because otherwise, they won't pay attention to the performers.

There is, however, the concomitant issue of social cohesion and social norms, which makes the matter more complex. In that sense there aren't just the performer and the audience, but the performer, social norms that everyone feels bound by and aspires to keep (social cohesion), and the audience.

In the Buddhist conception of things, it seems people are conceived of individualistically, as not bound by social norms, but simply acting on their own passions.

I think though that people often do things not necessarily because they would be driven by their own particular passions, but primarily because they're trying to comply with (what they believe are) society's norms.
For example, I used to go to the theater and made an effort to like it, to feel impressed, simply because this is what was expected of people of my social standing then. I find that the way art is talked about in the suttas bears a striking similarity to American individualism, but not to the way art is traditionally conceived of in continental Europe (where being interested in art has little or nothing to do with one's particular passions or dispassions for art per se, but primarily with a general desire to be cultured and to be considered cultured).

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Mr Man
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by Mr Man » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:51 pm

binocular wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:56 am
Mr Man wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:08 pm
So performers are responsible for the intoxicated & heedless mind states of others?
It would be wrong to say that performers are responsible for the intoxicated & heedless mind states of others; that would be an overstatement.
Hi binocular
I guess Dhammarakkhito's posts are being delayed by the moderators but I had originally posted directly after cappuccino's Sutta quote which would seem to say that.
cappuccino wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:53 pm
having made others intoxicated & heedless … is reborn in hell

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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by auto » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:09 pm

It is about the point that laughter and happiness doesn't change your destination if you are deluded and bound by bond of passion.

reading some other Suttas of that Sutta group will help understand.

like https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Paccha-bhumika Sutta SN 42.6
a quote from there:
"Suppose a man were to throw a large boulder into a deep lake of water, and a great crowd of people, gathering & congregating, would pray, praise, & circumambulate with their hands palm-to-palm over the heart [saying,] 'Rise up, O boulder! Come floating up, O boulder! Come float to the shore, O boulder!' What do you think: would that boulder — because of the prayers, praise, & circumambulation of that great crowd of people — rise up, come floating up, or come float to the shore?"
"No, lord."
Last edited by auto on Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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SDC
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by SDC » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:19 pm

Mr Man wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:51 pm
I guess Dhammarakkhito's posts are being delayed by the moderators but I had originally posted directly after cappuccino's Sutta quote which would seem to say that.
There is no post approval in this forum, so no posts are "being delayed by the moderators".

auto
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by auto » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:33 pm

also same Sutta group is a Sutta
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Maniculaka Sutta SN 42.10

what i gather from that Sutta is that buddhadharma followers money is not allowed.

last paragraph of that Sutta:
"Now I do say that thatch may be sought for by one needing thatch, wood may be sought for by one needing wood, a cart may be sought for by one needing a cart, a workman may be sought for by one needing a workman, but by no means do I say that money may be consented to or sought for in any way at all."
does it mean that if i need trousers, then i am not allowed to use money to buy them also jewelry or exchanging shirt to trousers? since shirt would be a money and would give ideas of trade etc.

i know because it doesn't make any difference because the destination is still hell if bound by passions.

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Mr Man
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by Mr Man » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:53 pm

SDC wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:19 pm
Mr Man wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:51 pm
I guess Dhammarakkhito's posts are being delayed by the moderators but I had originally posted directly after cappuccino's Sutta quote which would seem to say that.
There is no post approval in this forum, so no posts are "being delayed by the moderators".
Okay. Well anyway my post was posted to follow on from cappuccino's post.

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binocular
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by binocular » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:32 pm

auto wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:09 pm
It is about the point that laughter and happiness doesn't change your destination if you are deluded and bound by bond of passion.
Excellent point!

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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by DNS » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:21 pm

auto wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:33 pm
also same Sutta group is a Sutta
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Maniculaka Sutta SN 42.10
what i gather from that Sutta is that buddhadharma followers money is not allowed.

does it mean that if i need trousers, then i am not allowed to use money to buy them also jewelry or exchanging shirt to trousers? since shirt would be a money and would give ideas of trade etc.
Sakyan-son contemplatives

That sutta is referring to Sakyan-son contemplatives, i.e., monks and nuns, not lay people. Lay people are allowed to use money, engage in trade, business, livelihoods, etc.

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:01 pm

auto wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:33 pm
also same Sutta group is a Sutta
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Maniculaka Sutta SN 42.10

what i gather from that Sutta is that buddhadharma followers money is not allowed.

last paragraph of that Sutta:
"Now I do say that thatch may be sought for by one needing thatch, wood may be sought for by one needing wood, a cart may be sought for by one needing a cart, a workman may be sought for by one needing a workman, but by no means do I say that money may be consented to or sought for in any way at all."
does it mean that if i need trousers, then i am not allowed to use money to buy them also jewelry or exchanging shirt to trousers? since shirt would be a money and would give ideas of trade etc.

i know because it doesn't make any difference because the destination is still hell if bound by passions.
idk how we got on this topic, but while it is a requirement only for monks, it's still beneficial for laypeople.
Ghaṭīkāra the potter, sire, doubts not about anguish … the uprising of anguish … the stopping of anguish, he doubts not about the course leading to the stopping of anguish. Ghaṭīkāra the potter, sire, is a one-meal-man, a Brahma-farer, virtuous, lovely in character. Ghaṭīkāra the potter, sire, is one who has laid aside jewels and wrought gold, who is without gold and silver. Ghaṭīkāra the potter, sire, does not dig the earth either with a spade or with his own hand; willingly he makes a vessel from the soil of a bank that is crumbling or scratched out by rats and dogs, and he speaks thus: “He that likes, if he lays down fragments of husked rice here, fragments of kidney-beans, fragments of chick-peas, may take whatever he likes.” Ghaṭīkāra the potter, sire, looks after his blind ageing parents. Ghaṭīkāra the potter, sire, by the destruction of the five fetters binding to this lower (shore), is of spontaneous uprising, he attains final nibbāna there, he is not liable to return from that world.
https://suttacentral.net/en/mn81
i admire you for frequently referring to the texts, i don't see that too often
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by justindesilva » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:44 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:53 pm
having made others intoxicated & heedless … is reborn in hell
When lord budda was seated under the bo tree determined to be enlightened , it is said the three dsughters of mara , tanha , rathi , and ranga appeared before lord budda and tried to dissuade budda. While tanha means greed, and rathi means lust and ranga means bodily dancing creating sensual desires they are acts against serenity or aryan habits. A comedian or a singer cum actor never helps acts of sila or virtues and are means of kamaccanda. Therefore the place for such people who are like Tanha, rathi, ranga are the worlds of hell or purgatory.

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