Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

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2600htz
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by 2600htz » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:07 pm

Hello:

It might be that the Buddha was talking about the fate of an actor dying during a performance.
That would make much more sense, since virtually everyone has done some acting in school, even playing a tree :).

Regards.

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cappuccino
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by cappuccino » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:53 pm

having made others intoxicated & heedless … is reborn in hell

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:54 pm

the actor/comedian/performer not only encourages unskillful mindstates but he holds wrong view, believing that what he is doing will lead to a heavenly world when it is the opposite. he goes to 'hell of laughter' for unwholesome conduct and to hell or animal womb for holding onto wrong view, whether or not he serves consecutive terms or goes to a lower hell idk.
frankly, very very few are reborn as humans, so few:

Then the Blessed One, picking up a little bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monks, "What do you think, monks? Which is greater: the little bit of dust I have picked up with the tip of my fingernail, or the great earth?"

"The great earth is far greater, lord. The little bit of dust the Blessed One has picked up with the tip of his fingernail is next to nothing. It doesn't even count. It's no comparison. It's not even a fraction, this little bit of dust the Blessed One has picked up with the tip of his fingernail, when compared with the great earth.

"In the same way, monks, few are the beings reborn among human beings. Far more are those reborn elsewhere. Thus you should train yourselves: 'We will live heedfully.' That's how you should train yourselves."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

"Just as a firebrand from a funeral pyre — burning at both ends, covered with excrement in the middle — is used as fuel neither in a village nor in the wilderness: I tell you that this is a simile for the individual who practices neither for his/her own benefit nor for that of others. The individual who practices for the benefit of others but not for his/her own is the higher & more refined of these two. The individual who practices for his/her own benefit but not for that of others is the highest & most refined of these three. The individual who practices for his/her own benefit and for that of others is, of these four, the foremost, the chief, the most outstanding, the highest, & supreme. Just as from a cow comes milk; from milk, curds; from curds, butter; from butter, ghee; from ghee, the skimmings of ghee; and of these, the skimmings of ghee are reckoned the foremost — in the same way, of these four, the individual who practices for his/her own benefit and for that of others is the foremost, the chief, the most outstanding, the highest, & supreme.

"These are the four types of individuals to be found existing in the world."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:03 pm

Circle5 wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:17 am
Bhikkhus! A comedian making non-PC jokes produces much outrage in the world. Through his non-PC jokes, he causes other people to get angry and upset. In this life, villagers might attack him with torches and forks, or in a best case they will boycott and shut down his speeches. After the break-up of the body, he is reborn in hell or the animal womb. Thus, bhikkhus, a comedian making non-PC jokes produces much demerit for himself and he experiences suffering both in this life and the next one.
i am going to offer you a three-fold admonishment, and i hope you will accept it as being from one faithful practitioner to another.

(7) “Idle chatter, repeatedly pursued, developed, and cultivated, is conducive to hell, to the animal realm, and to the sphere of afflicted spirits; for one reborn as a human being idle chatter at minimum conduces to others distrusting one’s words.
https://suttacentral.net/en/an8.40

"And to whom, worthless man, do you understand me to have taught the Dhamma like that? [...] But you, through your own poor grasp, not only slander us but also dig yourself up [by the root] and produce much demerit for yourself. That will lead to your long-term harm & suffering."
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

"In the same way, Rahula, when anyone feels no shame in telling a deliberate lie, there is no evil, I tell you, he will not do. Thus, Rahula, you should train yourself, 'I will not tell a deliberate lie even in jest.'
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

i hope the moderators will allow this to remain so that benefit can be reaped from it and out of faith i am not a hostile party
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

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Mr Man
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by Mr Man » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:08 pm

So performers are responsible for the intoxicated & heedless mind states of others?

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SDC
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by SDC » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:31 pm

Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:03 pm
i hope the moderators will allow this to remain so that benefit can be reaped from it and out of faith i am not a hostile party
Just as long as you understand that Circle5 was well within the bounds of the terms of service when he made the joke. The staff currently has no plans to use the suttas to enforce conduct on the forum. Fair enough?

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:35 pm

disagreeable but fair
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

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SDC
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by SDC » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:36 pm

thank you

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:37 pm

Mr Man wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:08 pm
So performers are responsible for the intoxicated & heedless mind states of others?
responsibility is twofold. i am responsible for reacting in anger to someone who insults me, and the someone is responsible for insulting me and inciting my anger. i think the firebrand sutta i posted in purple speaks well to that
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:45 pm

like when you give a gift, there has to be a giver and a receiver in order to complete the act of giving. the recipient has to accept the gift
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

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DooDoot
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by DooDoot » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:17 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:49 pm
It is not right that a being spends his time delighting in sense pleasure, becoming lustful he becomes infatuated by sense pleasures, pleasurable ideas he likes to entertain, pleasurable sounds he seeks out, pleasurable sight objects does he seek.
rightviewftw wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:07 pm
Ye it's allure is very strong i have not been able to kick it yet either i think it is most difficult when living in the city.
In my opinion, music is a very trivial thing. If music itself is an obstacle to Dhamma practice then, in my opinion, there must not be a strong motivation for Dhamma practice. Its like saying a feather in a box is an obstacle to lifting the box. In reality, it is the heavy things in the box that are obstacles to lifting the box rather than the feather. Often music is part of a box of sensual pleasures, such as in the phrase "sex-drugs-rock-&-roll". If the wrong sex & drugs are abandoned, music is generally not a big deal or obstacle.

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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:24 am

DooDoot wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:17 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:49 pm
It is not right that a being spends his time delighting in sense pleasure, becoming lustful he becomes infatuated by sense pleasures, pleasurable ideas he likes to entertain, pleasurable sounds he seeks out, pleasurable sight objects does he seek.
rightviewftw wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:07 pm
Ye it's allure is very strong i have not been able to kick it yet either i think it is most difficult when living in the city.
In my opinion, music is a very trivial thing. If music itself is an obstacle to Dhamma practice then, in my opinion, there must not be a strong motivation for Dhamma practice.
Then in your opinion Noble Disciples do not have a strong motivation to practice;
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .vaka.html
7. "Bhikkhus. Ariyan disciples in this Religion reflect thus:

"'All arahants, for as long as life lasts, have given up singing and dancing, the playing of musical instruments and the watching of entertainments, which are stumbling blocks to that which is wholesome. Nor do they bedeck themselves with ornaments, flowers or perfume.'

"All of you have given up singing and dancing, the playing of musical instruments and the watching of entertainments, which are stumbling blocks to that which is wholesome. You do not bedeck yourselves with ornaments, flowers or perfume. For all of this day and night, in this manner, you will be known as having followed the arahants, and the Uposatha will have been observed by you.
better not say such things

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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by DooDoot » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:38 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:24 am
Then in your opinion Noble Disciples do not have a strong motivation to practice
Not at all. All I said was music itself is not a great obstacle to practise. I did not comment on how an arahant has no desire to listen to music.
rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:24 am
All of you have given up singing and dancing, the playing of musical instruments and the watching of entertainments, which are stumbling blocks to that which is wholesome. You do not bedeck yourselves with ornaments, flowers or perfume. For all of this day and night, in this manner, you will be known as having followed the arahants, and the Uposatha will have been observed by you.
The sutta supports what I posted, namely, music is part of a package of sensual pleasures, as follows:
All of you have given up that which is an obstacle to the Brahma-faring and behave like a Brahma. Your behavior is far from sexual intercourse.

All of you have given up the taking of liquors and intoxicants. You abstain from drink which causes carelessness.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .vaka.html
:alien:
rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:24 am
better not say such things
Unlike your confession, my mind is not a slave to music & I have kicked it, therefore, I can speak the truth. In my experience, music alone is not a great obstacle to meditation &, in my opinion, anyone that believes it is is probably hooked on other sensual pleasures.

:meditate:
rightviewftw wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:07 pm
Ye it's allure is very strong i have not been able to kick it yet either i think it is most difficult when living in the city.

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rightviewftw
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:44 am

DooDoot wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:38 am

Not at all. All I said was music itself is not a great obstacle to practise.
lol we all know that is not all you said. what a joke.
DooDoot wrote:In my opinion, music is a very trivial thing. If music itself is an obstacle to Dhamma practice then, in my opinion, there must not be a strong motivation for Dhamma practice. Its like saying a feather in a box is an obstacle to lifting the box. In reality, it is the heavy things in the box that are obstacles to lifting the box rather than the feather. Often music is part of a box of sensual pleasures, such as in the phrase "sex-drugs-rock-&-roll". If the wrong sex & drugs are abandoned, music is generally not a big deal or obstacle.

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rightviewftw
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:48 am

DooDoot wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:38 am
Unlike your confession, my mind is not a slave to music & I have kicked it, therefore, I can speak the truth. In my experience, music alone is not a great obstacle to meditation &, in my opinion, anyone that believes it is is probably hooked on other sensual pleasures.
Congratulations try kick slandering Arya, would be good for you

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DooDoot
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by DooDoot » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:49 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:44 am
lol we all know that is not all you said. what a joke.
I think possibility the larger joke is your attempting to bully people with sutta quotes about arahants & hijack the music thread yet your mind is still stuck in the mud of sensuality. Music in itself, dependent upon its nature or quality, is no big deal.
Cunda, it is impossible that one who is himself sunk in the mire should pull out another who is sunk in the mire. But it is possible, Cunda, that one not sunk in the mire himself should pull out another who is sunk in the mire.

MN 8

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rightviewftw
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:54 am

DooDoot wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:49 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:44 am
lol we all know that is not all you said. what a joke.
I think possibility the larger joke is your attempting to bully people with sutta quotes about arahants & hijack the music thread yet your mind is still stuck in the mud of sensuality. Music in itself, dependent upon its nature or quality, is no big deal.
Cunda, it is impossible that one who is himself sunk in the mire should pull out another who is sunk in the mire. But it is possible, Cunda, that one not sunk in the mire himself should pull out another who is sunk in the mire.

MN 8
I am sorry if you feel bullied. It was not my intention to bully you.

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rightviewftw
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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:01 am

Ill just point out the rediculousness in your speech
If music itself is an obstacle to Dhamma practice then, in my opinion, there must not be a strong motivation for Dhamma practice.
That quote mind you given to Ariya Disciple not an Arahant. It is also proclaimed that the music is an obstacle to those people (Ariya Savaka).
"All of you have given up singing and dancing, the playing of musical instruments and the watching of entertainments, which are stumbling blocks to that which is wholesome. You do not bedeck yourselves with ornaments, flowers or perfume. For all of this day and night, in this manner, you will be known as having followed the arahants, and the Uposatha will have been observed by you.
This is in direct contradiction to your uneducated opinion. So as far as this topic and discussion it is game, set, match.

Depends what you mean by strong motivation tho, do you have strong motivation, you who have supposedly weakened the fetter of sensuality, is yours stronger than that of a Sotapanna who listens to music?

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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by DooDoot » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:32 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:01 am
This is in direct contradiction to your uneducated opinion. So as far as this topic and discussion it is game, set, match.
Of course it is not game, set & match because the quote you made is out of context & does not negate the truth of what I said.
rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:01 am
Depends what you mean by strong motivation tho, do you have strong motivation, you who have supposedly weakened the fetter of sensuality
The motivation for peace, even it that peace is merely samatha. The motivation to end suffering. Music is a trifling thing in relation to this. When a person is motivated to end suffering, music is not a significant obstacle.
rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:01 am
is yours stronger than that of a Sotapanna who listens to music?
This is in direct contradiction to your uneducated opinion. A Sotapanna is a Noble Disciple (rather than a faith follower that abstains from sex, food, drugs & music one day per month on the Uposatha). Why would a Sotapanna want to listen to music? Just because the suttas say a Sotappana has not uprooted sensual desire does not mean a Sotapanna is devoted to sensual pleasures. The idea that Sotapanna always engage in sexual activity is false.

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Re: Why does a comedian go to hell or animal womb?

Post by pegembara » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:41 am

"Now suppose that a magician or magician's apprentice were to display a magic trick at a major intersection, and a man with good eyesight were to see it, observe it, & appropriately examine it. To him — seeing it, observing it, & appropriately examining it — it would appear empty, void, without substance: for what substance would there be in a magic trick? In the same way, a monk sees, observes, & appropriately examines any consciousness that is past, future, or present; internal or external; blatant or subtle; common or sublime; far or near. To him — seeing it, observing it, & appropriately examining it — it would appear empty, void, without substance: for what substance would there be in consciousness?

"Seeing thus, the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones grows disenchanted with form, disenchanted with feeling, disenchanted with perception, disenchanted with fabrications, disenchanted with consciousness. Disenchanted, he grows dispassionate. Through dispassion, he's released.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
What goes on in the entertainment world does not lead to dispassion but to its opposite. There lots of interesting forms, emotions, narratives, sex and drugs. So instead of gaining release, the worldly bonds get stronger and stronger.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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