one word to defeat the eternalists

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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cappuccino
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Re: one word to defeat the eternalists

Post by cappuccino » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:34 pm

Just as space is not produced, does not age, does not suffer
death, does not pass out of existence, does not come into
existence, cannot be forcibly handled, cannot be carried away by
thieves, rests on nothing, is the pathway of birds, presents no
obstacles, is endless, so also Nibbæna is not produced, does not
age, does not suffer death, does not pass out of existence, does
not come into existence, cannot be forcibly handled, cannot be
carried away by thieves, rests on nothing, is the pathway of the
Noble, presents no obstacles, is endless.

Just as the great ocean is vast, boundless, fills not up for all
of the streams that flow into it. Precisely so Nibbæna is vast,
boundless, fills not up for all of the living beings that pass
thereunto.

“Good, Reverend Nægasena! It is even so! I agree absolutely!”
Last edited by cappuccino on Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Garrib
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Re: one word to defeat the eternalists

Post by Garrib » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:55 pm

Maybe it's not so important that we understand exactly what Nibbana is, so that we can argue about it online...maybe it is more important that we do what we can day by day, moment by moment, to get closer to actually realizing Nibbana. Then we can know for sure what it is, and how to think of it, or not think of it, or whatever.

How do we approach Nibbana? By following the Noble Eightfold Path.

:smile:

Jeremy
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Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:27 am

Re: one word to defeat the eternalists

Post by Jeremy » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:51 am

dylanj wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:00 am
another one

akālika - timeless

This is yet another reason why eternalists are slandering the Buddha out of misfounded fear of annihilation. The cessation of existence (bhavanirodha, nibbāna) isn't something that happens in time, after which the rest of 'existence' goes on without the extinguished (nibbāna) 'person'; nor is it something that happens after which the extinguished 'person' goes on along with such 'existence' - it might as well be called the cessation of time, too.

It is not impermanent. It is not eternal. It is a stopping, the stopping of birth-death thisness-otherwiseness (itthabhāvaññathābhāva) saṁsāra, beyond which there is no designation of time.
Timeless is a synonym for eternal

Jeremy
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Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:27 am

Re: Beautiful and inspiring words about Nibbana

Post by Jeremy » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:58 am

dylanj wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:46 am
You say this post is to avoid debate, & that's great. But eternalists have already ruined it by mistranslating passages to suggest nibbana is permanent.

Fun-fact: nibbana is described as non-continuing. It is beyond time & is not permanent or eternal. The word translated as permanent is dhuvam meaning stable, not permanent.
Definition of permanent=lasting or intended to last or remain unchanged indefinitely. If nibbana is not permanent then does that mean Arahant can cease to be an Arahant? Lose his attainment? No longer remain in Nibbana?

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rightviewftw
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Re: Beautiful and inspiring words about Nibbana

Post by rightviewftw » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:42 pm

Jeremy wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:58 am
dylanj wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:46 am
You say this post is to avoid debate, & that's great. But eternalists have already ruined it by mistranslating passages to suggest nibbana is permanent.

Fun-fact: nibbana is described as non-continuing. It is beyond time & is not permanent or eternal. The word translated as permanent is dhuvam meaning stable, not permanent.
Definition of permanent=lasting or intended to last or remain unchanged indefinitely. If nibbana is not permanent then does that mean Arahant can cease to be an Arahant? Lose his attainment? No longer remain in Nibbana?
Sotapanna Sees Nibbana, Arising of Dhammacakka, this attainment of the Fruit is not without residue, his Karma is not unraveled and he has no mastery of this Absorption Attainment. When thus Absorbed Aggregates arise a new so absorbtion breaks because there is still volition of Samsara. There are no conditions for arising of aggregates for an Arahant when heat dissipates, bodily and mental faculties wither away, it is without residue and final, mind goes to the unconstructed.

Why exactly it break for a Sotapanna i am not sure but i guess what is resolved upon in prior existence is due to run its course basically.

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