Gautama a.k.a. Buddha abandoning his wife and child - was it wrong?

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santa100
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Re: Gautama a.k.a. Buddha abandoning his wife and child - was it wrong?

Post by santa100 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:53 am

No_Mind wrote:Not to contest what you said .. since anything I say here is misconstrued as a Hindu conspiracy against Buddhism .. But from Mahavira to recent times the examples run into tens of thousands .. probably millions
And the obvious reply to you is, please provide backup literatures and sutta references? And remember the criteria is that a guy must "have it all" and then renounced it all, not some mediocre dude. Otherwise, it'd be too easy.

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No_Mind
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Re: Gautama a.k.a. Buddha abandoning his wife and child - was it wrong?

Post by No_Mind » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:02 am

santa100 wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:53 am
No_Mind wrote:Not to contest what you said .. since anything I say here is misconstrued as a Hindu conspiracy against Buddhism .. But from Mahavira to recent times the examples run into tens of thousands .. probably millions
And the obvious reply to you is, please provide backup literatures and sutta references? And remember the criteria is that a guy must "have it all" and then renounced it all, not some mediocre dude. Otherwise, it'd be too easy.
Mahavira .. why do you have to make it so easy for me? I am the Hindu devil .. try harder to outwit me

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahavira

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

santa100
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Re: Gautama a.k.a. Buddha abandoning his wife and child - was it wrong?

Post by santa100 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:05 am

No_Mind wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:02 am
santa100 wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:53 am
No_Mind wrote:Not to contest what you said .. since anything I say here is misconstrued as a Hindu conspiracy against Buddhism .. But from Mahavira to recent times the examples run into tens of thousands .. probably millions
And the obvious reply to you is, please provide backup literatures and sutta references? And remember the criteria is that a guy must "have it all" and then renounced it all, not some mediocre dude. Otherwise, it'd be too easy.
Mahavira .. why do you have to make it so easy for me? I am the Hindu devil .. try harder to outwit me

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahavira

:namaste:
You haven't provided anything to back up your claim that there're "tens of thousands... probably millions". Even your cited links don't even cut it for it only has 1 factor: wealth.

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No_Mind
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Re: Gautama a.k.a. Buddha abandoning his wife and child - was it wrong?

Post by No_Mind » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:06 am

santa100 wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:05 am
No_Mind wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:02 am
santa100 wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:53 am

And the obvious reply to you is, please provide backup literatures and sutta references? And remember the criteria is that a guy must "have it all" and then renounced it all, not some mediocre dude. Otherwise, it'd be too easy.
Mahavira .. why do you have to make it so easy for me? I am the Hindu devil .. try harder to outwit me

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahavira

:namaste:
You haven't provided anything to back up your claim that there're "tens of thousands... probably millions". Even your cited links don't even cut it for it only has 1 factor: wealth.
Wealth gets you palaces and women .. am I missing something or are you badly losing

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

santa100
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Re: Gautama a.k.a. Buddha abandoning his wife and child - was it wrong?

Post by santa100 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:08 am

No_Mind wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:06 am
santa100 wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:05 am
No_Mind wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:02 am


Mahavira .. why do you have to make it so easy for me? I am the Hindu devil .. try harder to outwit me

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahavira

:namaste:
You haven't provided anything to back up your claim that there're "tens of thousands... probably millions". Even your cited links don't even cut it for it only has 1 factor: wealth.
Wealth gets you palaces and women .. am I missing something or are you badly losing

:namaste:
I'm not losing anything but you definitely missing something. I'll ask you one more time, please back up your claim of "tens of thousands... probably millions" people who were able to do what the Buddha did.

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No_Mind
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Re: Gautama a.k.a. Buddha abandoning his wife and child - was it wrong?

Post by No_Mind » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:10 am

santa100 wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:08 am
I'm not losing anything but you definitely missing something. I'll ask you one more time, please back up your claim of "tens of thousands... probably millions" people who were able to do what the Buddha did.
That is like saying provide the death certificate and autopsy report of every person who died in Holocaust .. or it is a propaganda. You do know which particular fringe group you sound like I believe

Got better things to do than answering trolls

:namaste:
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santa100
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Re: Gautama a.k.a. Buddha abandoning his wife and child - was it wrong?

Post by santa100 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:13 am

No_Mind wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:10 am
santa100 wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:08 am
I'm not losing anything but you definitely missing something. I'll ask you one more time, please back up your claim of "tens of thousands... probably millions" people who were able to do what the Buddha did.
That is like saying provide the death certificate and autopsy of every person who died in Holocaust .. or it is a propaganda. You do know which particular fringe group you sound like I believe

:namaste:
Nice try to evade. But the truth is you still dodge a direct question. If you don't have anything, then the honest thing to do is admit that youre wrong in saying that there are "tens of thousands...probably millions" of people who were able to do that the Buddha did.

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No_Mind
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Re: Gautama a.k.a. Buddha abandoning his wife and child - was it wrong?

Post by No_Mind » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:14 am

santa100 wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:13 am
No_Mind wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:10 am
santa100 wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:08 am
I'm not losing anything but you definitely missing something. I'll ask you one more time, please back up your claim of "tens of thousands... probably millions" people who were able to do what the Buddha did.
That is like saying provide the death certificate and autopsy of every person who died in Holocaust .. or it is a propaganda. You do know which particular fringe group you sound like I believe

:namaste:
Nice try to evade. But the truth is you still dodge a direct question. If you don't have anything, then the honest thing to do is admit that youre wrong in saying that there are "tens of thousands...probably millions" of people who were able to do that the Buddha did.
This post ain't dripping blood .. and I am not evading anything .. you caught me on wrong foot once .. not today :smile:

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

santa100
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Re: Gautama a.k.a. Buddha abandoning his wife and child - was it wrong?

Post by santa100 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:15 am

No_Mind wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:14 am
santa100 wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:13 am
No_Mind wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:10 am


That is like saying provide the death certificate and autopsy of every person who died in Holocaust .. or it is a propaganda. You do know which particular fringe group you sound like I believe

:namaste:
Nice try to evade. But the truth is you still dodge a direct question. If you don't have anything, then the honest thing to do is admit that youre wrong in saying that there are "tens of thousands...probably millions" of people who were able to do that the Buddha did.
This post ain't dripping blood .. and I am not evading anything .. you caught me on wrong foot once .. not today :smile:

:namaste:
I didn't catch you on wrong foot. Just a simple question and you are not able to give any proof, as usual. No surprise there.

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binocular
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Re: Gautama a.k.a. Buddha abandoning his wife and child - was it wrong?

Post by binocular » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:33 am

thepea wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:25 pm
For someone who ended up so wise this description of him never seeing suffering until he left the palace seem pretty far fetched, you think he would have experienced suffering at some point or he must have been naive bordering on simple minded.
Like a character in a tv commercial for something very clean ...

But I've known people who are a bit like that. They came from stable families, relatively well off, driven to success. I've gotten the impression, though, that it's not that they don't see suffering, it's that they don't care about other people's suffering (to the point that it doesn't even seem to register in their awareness), or they minimize it (as in, "People in Nazi concentration camps suffered, but we most certainly don't"), or they seem oblivious to it or in denial of it (as if they have a huge blind spot).

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Re: Gautama a.k.a. Buddha abandoning his wife and child - was it wrong?

Post by thepea » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:58 am

santa100 wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:13 am
youre wrong in saying that there are "tens of thousands...probably millions" of people who were able to do that the Buddha did.
Why is it wrong to feel that millions have been able to do what mr gotama did?
Why do you feel mr gotama had more to give up than you or I?
If you look at the mentality of youth he was probably very selfish, thinking mostly of his own desires. he just simply focussed on the question of suffering, as a guy who likes rockets might focus on fuel sources and better engineering designs.
His family was in the way of his dreams so he left them like a lot of young people do when they feel the shackles of family responsibility placed upon them.
How many times had he done this previously in past lives but fallen short of his search, seen as another deadbeat dad?
Your bullying “no-mind” with your style of posting in my opinion, forcing him to provide sutta references which do not exist before offering sntything of your own, in a topic where people are sharing their opinions on an aspect of renunciation that is close to the hearts of many. it is a crossroads for many on their spiritual journey.

thepea
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Re: Gautama a.k.a. Buddha abandoning his wife and child - was it wrong?

Post by thepea » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:21 am

binocular wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:33 am

Like a character in a tv commercial for something very clean ...

But I've known people who are a bit like that. They came from stable families, relatively well off, driven to success. I've gotten the impression, though, that it's not that they don't see suffering, it's that they don't care about other people's suffering (to the point that it doesn't even seem to register in their awareness), or they minimize it (as in, "People in Nazi concentration camps suffered, but we most certainly don't"), or they seem oblivious to it or in denial of it (as if they have a huge blind spot).
Mr gotama was probably a spoiled self centred rich teenager suffering immensely inside, unsatisfied with life and trying everything he could get his hands on to fill that emptiness. Like millions before they kill themselves, or are finally ready to begin their spiritual journey.
Yes I’m sure the nazi soldiers suffered they were mostly also very young, and put in positions where choices to commit very dark acts were not an option they were forced to commit dark acts and to do this they must have repressed much like a temporary blind spot. Then once they see clearly they change and wont do those acts anymore.

santa100
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Re: Gautama a.k.a. Buddha abandoning his wife and child - was it wrong?

Post by santa100 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:01 pm

thepea wrote:Why do you feel mr gotama had more to give up than you or I?
I don't need to "feel" anything. The fact is right there in front of you. Neither you nor I are the princes of any country who possess every worldly blessing possible in the world. Are you physically and mentally powerful, exceedingly wealthy, exceedingly intelligent, hold the most honorable title, honor and prestige in the country, live in multiple palaces packed with beautiful and talented women?

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No_Mind
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Re: Gautama a.k.a. Buddha abandoning his wife and child - was it wrong?

Post by No_Mind » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:27 pm

santa100 wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:01 pm
thepea wrote:Why do you feel mr gotama had more to give up than you or I?
I don't need to "feel" anything. The fact is right there in front of you. Neither you nor I are the princes of any country who possess every worldly blessing possible in the world. Are you physically and mentally powerful, exceedingly wealthy, exceedingly intelligent, hold the most honorable title, honor and prestige in the country, live in multiple palaces packed with beautiful and talented women?
Correction .. he was prince of a few hundred square mile mahajanapada .. not Alexander or Ramesses

The film quite correctly shows his father holding court in a large mud brick and bamboo hut. Was he from a wealthy family .. yes .. but was his kingdom comparable to the one Ashoka inherited .. no ..

:namaste:
Last edited by No_Mind on Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I know one thing: that I know nothing

santa100
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Re: Gautama a.k.a. Buddha abandoning his wife and child - was it wrong?

Post by santa100 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:30 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:27 pm
santa100 wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:01 pm
thepea wrote:Why do you feel mr gotama had more to give up than you or I?
I don't need to "feel" anything. The fact is right there in front of you. Neither you nor I are the princes of any country who possess every worldly blessing possible in the world. Are you physically and mentally powerful, exceedingly wealthy, exceedingly intelligent, hold the most honorable title, honor and prestige in the country, live in multiple palaces packed with beautiful and talented women?
Correction .. he was prince of a few hundred square mile mahajanapada (literally meaning area with large population) .. not Alexander or Hector

The film quite correctly shows his father holding court in a large mud brick and bamboo hut. Was he from a wealthy family .. yes .. but was his kingdom comparable to the one Ashoka inherited .. no ..

:namaste:
Assuming that's true, then are you a prince of a few hundred square miles who is physically and mentally powerful, exceedingly wealthy, exceedingly intelligent, hold the most honorable title, honor and prestige in the country, live in multiple palaces packed with beautiful and talented women?

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