It's in the nature of the Dhamma that it goes against the flow of life as it is usually lived. By its nature, Buddhism (as a means of transmitting the Dhamma) simply cannot be the type of expansive religion that Christianity is, for example. When Buddhism tries to be expansive like that, it sooner or later goes against the Dhamma.User1249x wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:53 amI think one should probe for public interest more and If support is there, the people involved should get an overview of the systems in place and who wants to cooperate, get technical solutions from developers and find a trustworthy fundraising entity to be involved.
Theravada in 2018
Re: Theravada in 2018
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
Re: Theravada in 2018
About OP:
We have tha same problem about organisation like muslims - we have no any religious autority, so we have no organisation.
There is good and bad point in here, but i think that all phenomenas are perfects in their conditionned existance - all is like it is; not good not bad, just conditionned...
We have tha same problem about organisation like muslims - we have no any religious autority, so we have no organisation.
There is good and bad point in here, but i think that all phenomenas are perfects in their conditionned existance - all is like it is; not good not bad, just conditionned...
Ajahn Nanadassano (before ordaining) : Venerable Ajahn, what is the bigest error that buddhist do in their practice?
Ajahn Jayasaro : They stop practicing ...
Ajahn Jayasaro : They stop practicing ...
Re: Theravada in 2018
I at first didn't know what you mean by involvement vs. pursuit, but then I recalled an old blog about interest vs. commitment.SDC wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:23 pmI think the community (DW and abroad) needs to come to terms with the idea that while there is quite clearly a right and wrong way to pursue knowledge and wisdom, there is no right or wrong way to be involved with Buddhism. Conflating pursuit with involvement and insisting they must imply one another is the biggest issue we face going forward. The idea that there must be a resolution between the two, takes up far too much of our time. Whether it be a discussion of DW forum culture or validity of interpretation, it seems we always get hung up on trying to define what constitutes "proper" involvement and whether or not it amounts to pursuit.
I think it is necessary to clarify how come people remain on the level of involvement/interest, as opposed to pursuit/commitment.If we can't agree on this then "Buddhism" will continue to be more and more about "what does it mean to be Buddhist?" instead of "this is how you pursue the Dhamma." Unfortunately that is where we are. I just hope it isn't too late to dial it back and allow pursuit and involvement a reasonable amount of exclusivity if nothing else but to provide a clearing so the difference between the two can be seen.
Except in the case of the rare person who really just has "too much time on their hands", I find that something much more profound is going on when people seem to deliberately stay on the level of mere involvement/interest.
Personally, I find that many Buddhists seem to take pursuit/commitment far too lightly, expecting themselves and others to pursue/commit too readily. Much like expecting that two people should get married after a few dates. I find that many people who seem to hover on the level of involvement/interest realize, at least intuitively, that pursuing/committing would bring great changes to their lives, primarily in terms of losses of worldy benefits, and they are not yet ready to accept those losses, or perhaps don't believe (much less see) that by pursuing/committing, they would obtain gains greater than those losess.
In fact, I don't recall any Buddhist ever to be willing to look into this type of concern. Many just give a blanket statement that "it's worth it" and that people should just take their word for it, or "test it for themselves". But nothing is as inspiring as a real model, as someone who has really attained a great accomplishment. And I find there is a real shortage of such models in Buddhism.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
Re: Theravada in 2018
Take Buddhist preaching on the internet, for example. The way seekers who are asking questions are bulldozed over by Buddhists, lays and monks alike. And these preachers can come up with a dozen rationalizations as to why "practising is better than discussing". But what does any of that help when it doesn't address the seeker's actual concern? Such preachers might as well give the seeker a mantra and say he should chant it whenever he feels troubled.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
Re: Theravada in 2018
I would challenge that with pointing to examples from this forum where this does not happen, where OP ends up thanking posters and dhamma is posted. Also stackexchange platform where like 99% of questions get several answers sometimes from monastics and there is some level of scrutiny of answers, hardly ever scrutiny of the OP. Can also mention monks who make themselves available for questioning and explain their doctrine in full on the internet.binocular wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:55 pmTake Buddhist preaching on the internet, for example. The way seekers who are asking questions are bulldozed over by Buddhists, lays and monks alike. And these preachers can come up with a dozen rationalizations as to why "practising is better than discussing". But what does any of that help when it doesn't address the seeker's actual concern? Such preachers might as well give the seeker a mantra and say he should chant it whenever he feels troubled.
i learned all i know from internet, never saw a monk before i wanted to be one. What you talk about is true and happens but i think we all agree on this and in part why i think it would be good to have a platform that adresses it while keeping all the other good features.
Re: Theravada in 2018
Probably stems from them thinking they are walking the path when all they were doing was thinking about walking it. As if studying a map across Europe equals traveling across Europe.binocular wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:51 pm I think it is necessary to clarify how come people remain on the level of involvement/interest, as opposed to pursuit/commitment.
Except in the case of the rare person who really just has "too much time on their hands", I find that something much more profound is going on when people seem to deliberately stay on the level of mere involvement/interest.
Personally, I find that many Buddhists seem to take pursuit/commitment far too lightly, expecting themselves and others to pursue/commit too readily. Much like expecting that two people should get married after a few dates. I find that many people who seem to hover on the level of involvement/interest realize, at least intuitively, that pursuing/committing would bring great changes to their lives, primarily in terms of losses of worldy benefits, and they are not yet ready to accept those losses, or perhaps don't believe (much less see) that by pursuing/committing, they would obtain gains greater than those losess.
In fact, I don't recall any Buddhist ever to be willing to look into this type of concern. Many just give a blanket statement that "it's worth it" and that people should just take their word for it, or "test it for themselves". But nothing is as inspiring as a real model, as someone who has really attained a great accomplishment. And I find there is a real shortage of such models in Buddhism.
Only when the interest develops into commitment can a person truly get a handle on what they are going to put on the line. Prior to that they simply do not know the difference, or that there is one.
Pretty intuitive, b. You don't give yourself enough credit.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
Re: Theravada in 2018
But on the other hand:User1249x wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:00 pmI would challenge that with pointing to examples from this forum where this does not happen, where OP ends up thanking posters and dhamma is posted. Also stackexchange platform where like 99% of questions get several answers sometimes from monastics and there is some level of scrutiny of answers, hardly ever scrutiny of the OP. Can also mention monks who make themselves available for questioning and explain their doctrine in full on the internet.
i learned all i know from internet, never saw a monk before i wanted to be one. What you talk about is true and happens but i think we all agree on this and in part why i think it would be good to have a platform that adresses it while keeping all the other good features.
One doesn't become lionhearted by being in the company of pleasant people pleasantly sipping pleasant tea. I certainly don't advocate violence, nor safe spaces, but, you know, everyone's got to grow their own balls.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
Re: Theravada in 2018
You mean like a bunch of interested people telling other interested people how to become committed?SDC wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:33 pmProbably stems from them thinking they are walking the path when all they were doing was thinking about walking it. As if studying a map across Europe equals traveling across Europe.
Only when the interest develops into commitment can a person truly get a handle on what they are going to put on the line. Prior to that they simply do not know the difference, or that there is one.
Watch me.Pretty intuitive, b. You don't give yourself enough credit.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
Re: Theravada in 2018
In regard to my statement;
Do you have any other examples upon which you base your position?
User1249x wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:53 amI think one should probe for public interest more and If support is there, the people involved should get an overview of the systems in place and who wants to cooperate, get technical solutions from developers and find a trustworthy fundraising entity to be involved.
then i asked:
to which you replyDo you have relative examples in mind?
So the fact that people can rationalize practising over discussing is an example of Buddhism attempted to spread like Christianity which later went against the Dhamma? Do you consider "practising over discussing" or discussion boards in general a particularly Christian thing?Take Buddhist preaching on the internet, for example. The way seekers who are asking questions are bulldozed over by Buddhists, lays and monks alike. Preachers can come up with a dozen rationalizations as to why "practising is better than discussing". '
Do you have any other examples upon which you base your position?
Re: Theravada in 2018
It's the part about preachers bulldozing over people that is pertinent.User1249x wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:38 pmSo the fact that people can rationalize practising over discussing is an example of Buddhism attempted to spread like Christianity which later went against the Dhamma? Do you consider "practising over discussing" or discussion boards in general a particularly Christian thing?Take Buddhist preaching on the internet, for example. The way seekers who are asking questions are bulldozed over by Buddhists, lays and monks alike. Preachers can come up with a dozen rationalizations as to why "practising is better than discussing". '
Do you have any other examples upon which you base your position?
Did you ever actually have an open conversation with a preacher from an expansive religion? A Jehovah's witness, a Mormon, a Catholic, a Hare Krishna? I've talked to many of them, and read many conversations they've had with other people. One thing they all have in common is that they barely listen to the person they are preaching to, there is no actual discussion; at best, the preacher treats the person's concerns as trivial, glibly sweeping them under the rug. All that seems to matter to the preacher is that the other person accepts what she is being told. How and why and and what costs seems to be irrelevant to the preacher.
I think such a disregard for a person's situation is not in line with the Dhamma.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
Re: Theravada in 2018
Is it connected to people demanding to be held in teacher position and dont engage in discussion? As in "listen to me, you have nothing to teach me, do as i say or i dont bother speaking to you at all" that kind of attitude among people who seem/claim to practice?
Re: Theravada in 2018
Precisely.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
Re: Theravada in 2018
You're talking about the "citta that never dies" which lies outside of aggregates/sense bases/conditionality ?
"People often get too quick to say 'there's no self. There's no self...no self...no self.' There is self, there is focal point, its not yours. That's what not self is."
Ninoslav Ñāṇamoli
Senses and the Thought-1, 42:53
"Those who create constructs about the Buddha,
Who is beyond construction and without exhaustion,
Are thereby damaged by their constructs;
They fail to see the Thus-Gone.
That which is the nature of the Thus-Gone
Is also the nature of this world.
There is no nature of the Thus-Gone.
There is no nature of the world."
Nagarjuna
MMK XXII.15-16
Ninoslav Ñāṇamoli
Senses and the Thought-1, 42:53
"Those who create constructs about the Buddha,
Who is beyond construction and without exhaustion,
Are thereby damaged by their constructs;
They fail to see the Thus-Gone.
That which is the nature of the Thus-Gone
Is also the nature of this world.
There is no nature of the Thus-Gone.
There is no nature of the world."
Nagarjuna
MMK XXII.15-16
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Re: Theravada in 2018
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