nibbāna is the cessation of existence

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dylanj
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nibbāna is the cessation of existence

Post by dylanj » Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:07 pm

Eternalism is heresy. If there is something, it hasn't been given up. If not all has been given up, there is grasping.

Why is Dhamma so hard, especially nowadays?

A refusal to accept this fact, and the build-up over time of the popularity of views made by those who haven't accepted this fact.

After it's accepted this problem is gone.

& remember, the truth of having-been-given-up can't die. When all has ceased, what you've relinquished is still such :).

So there is no annihilation here.
"The mind is impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise."

Saṃyutta Nikāya 35.93
Dvaya Sutta II
"And what is name-form, what is the origin of name-form, what is the cessation of name-form, what is the way leading to the cessation of name-form? Feeling, perception, volition, contact and attention — these are called name. The four great elements and the material form derived from the four great elements — these are called form. So this name and this form are what is called name-form. With the arising of consciousness there is the arising of name-form. With the cessation of consciousness there is the cessation of name-form. The way leading to the cessation of name-form is just this Noble Eightfold Path; that is, right view... right concentration."

Majjhima Nikāya 9
Sammādiṭṭhi Sutta
"When delight and existence are utterly exhausted,
when perception & consciousness are both destroyed,
when feelings cease and are appeased - thus, O friend,
do I know, for them that live
deliverance, freedom, detachment."

Saṃyutta Nikāya 1.2
Nimokkha Sutta
“One perception arose and another perception ceased in me: ‘The cessation of existence is nibbāna; the cessation of existence is nibbāna.’ Just as, when a fire of twigs is burning, one flame arises and another flame ceases, so one perception arose and another perception ceased in me: ‘The cessation of existence is nibbāna; the cessation of existence is nibbāna.’ On that occasion, friend, I was percipient: ‘The cessation of existence is nibbāna.’”

Aṅguttara Nikāya 10.7
Sāriputta Sutta
“And how, bhikkhus, should the nutriment consciousness be seen? Suppose they were to arrest a bandit, a criminal, and bring him before the king, saying: ‘Sire, this man is a bandit, a criminal. Impose on him whatever punishment you wish.’ The king says to them: ‘Go, men, in the morning strike this man with a hundred spears.’ In the morning they strike him with a hundred spears. Then at noon the king asks: ‘Men, how’s that man?’–‘Still alive, sire.’–‘Then go, and at noon strike him with a hundred spears.’ At noon they strike him with a hundred spears. Then in the evening the king asks: ‘Men, how’s that man?’–‘Still alive, sire.’ –‘Then go, and in the evening strike him with a hundred spears.’ In the evening they strike him with a hundred spears.

“What do you think, bhikkhus? Would that man, being struck with three hundred spears, experience pain and displeasure on that account?”

“Venerable sir, even if he were struck with one spear he would experience pain and displeasure on that account, not to speak of three hundred spears.”

“It is in such a way, bhikkhus, that I say the nutriment consciousness should be seen. When the nutriment consciousness is fully understood, name-and-form is fully understood. When name-and-form is fully understood, I say, there is nothing further that a noble disciple needs to do.”

Saṃyutta Nikāya 12.63
Puttamaṃsa Sutta
"I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying near Savatthi in Jeta's Grove, Anathapindika's monastery. There he addressed the monks, "Monks, an uninstructed run-of-the-mill person might grow disenchanted with this body composed of the four great elements, might grow dispassionate toward it, might gain release from it. Why is that? Because the growth & decline, the taking up & putting down of this body composed of the four great elements are apparent. Thus the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person might grow disenchanted, might grow dispassionate, might gain release there.

"But as for what's called 'mind,' 'intellect,' or 'consciousness,' the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person is unable to grow disenchanted with it, unable to grow dispassionate toward it, unable to gain release from it. Why is that? For a long time this has been relished, appropriated, and grasped by the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person as, 'This is me, this is my self, this is what I am.' Thus the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person is unable to grow disenchanted with it, unable to grow dispassionate toward it, unable to gain release from it.

"It would be better for the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person to hold to the body composed of the four great elements, rather than the mind, as the self. Why is that? Because this body composed of the four great elements is seen standing for a year, two years, three, four, five, ten, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, a hundred years or more. But what's called 'mind,' 'intellect,' or 'consciousness' by day and by night arises as one thing and ceases as another. Just as a monkey, swinging through a forest wilderness, grabs a branch. Letting go of it, it grabs another branch. Letting go of that, it grabs another one. Letting go of that, it grabs another one. In the same way, what's called 'mind,' 'intellect,' or 'consciousness' by day and by night arises as one thing and ceases as another."

Saṃyutta Nikāya 12.61
Assutavā Sutta
"The mind is aflame. Mind-objects are aflame. Mind-consciousness is aflame. Contact at the mind is aflame. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the mind— experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain — that too is aflame. Aflame with what? Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion. Aflame, I say, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs."

Saṃyutta Nikāya 35.28
Ādittapariyāya Sutta
"Householders, there are some recluses and brahmins whose doctrine and view is this: ‘There is definitely no total cessation of existence.’

“Now there are some recluses and brahmins whose doctrine is directly opposed to that of those recluses and brahmins, and they say thus: ‘There definitely is a total cessation of existence.’ What do you think, householders? Don’t these recluses and brahmins hold doctrines directly opposed to each other?”—“Yes, venerable sir.”

“About this a wise man considers thus: ‘These good recluses and brahmins hold the doctrine and view “there is definitely no total cessation of existence,” but that has not been seen by me. And these other good recluses and brahmins hold the doctrine and view “there definitely is a total cessation of existence,” but that has not been known by me. If, without knowing and seeing, I were to take one side and declare: “Only this is true, anything else is wrong,” that would not be fitting for me. Now as to the recluses and brahmins who hold the doctrine and view “there definitely is no total cessation of existence,” if their word is true then it is certainly still possible that I might reappear after death among the gods of the immaterial realms who consist of perception. But as to the recluses and brahmins who hold the doctrine and view “there definitely is a total cessation of existence,” if their word is true then it is possible that I might here and now attain final Nibbāna. The view of those good recluses and brahmins who hold the doctrine and view “there definitely is no total cessation of existence” is close to lust, close to bondage, close to delighting, close to holding, close to clinging; but the view of those good recluses and brahmins who hold the doctrine and view “there definitely is total cessation of existence” is close to non-lust, close to non-bondage, close to non-delighting, close to non-holding, close to non-clinging.’ After reflecting thus, he practises the way to disenchantment with existence, to the fading away and cessation of existence."

Majjhima Nikāya 60
Apaṇṇaka Sutta
"He understands: ‘With the breakup of the body, following the exhaustion of life, all feelings, not being delighted in, will become cool right here; mere bodily remains will be left."

Saṃyutta Nikāya 12.51
Parivīmaṃsana Sutta
"Is it true, Sāti, that this pernicious view has arisen in you — 'As I understand the Dhamma taught by the Blessed One, it is just this consciousness that runs and wanders on, not another'?"

"Exactly so, lord. As I understand the Dhamma taught by the Blessed One, it is just this consciousness that runs and wanders on, not another."

"Which consciousness, Sāti, is that?"

"This speaker, this knower, lord, that is sensitive here & there to the ripening of good & evil actions."

"And to whom, worthless man, do you understand me to have taught the Dhamma like that? Haven't I, in many ways, said of dependently co-arisen consciousness, 'Apart from a requisite condition, there is no coming-into-play of consciousness'? But you, through your own poor grasp, not only slander us but also dig yourself up and produce much demerit for yourself. That will lead to your long-term harm & suffering."

Then the Blessed One said to the monks, "What do you think, monks? Is this monk Sāti, the Fisherman's Son, even warm in this Dhamma & Vinaya?"

"How could he be, lord? No, lord."

Majjhima Nikāya 38
Mahātaṇhā­saṅkhaya Sutta
"Monks, where a self or what belongs to self are not pinned down as a truth or reality, then the view-position — 'This cosmos is the self. After death this I will be constant, permanent, eternal, not subject to change. I will stay just like that for an eternity' — Isn't it utterly & completely a fool's teaching?" "What else could it be, lord? It's utterly & completely a fool's teaching."

Majjhima Nikāya 22
Alagaddūpama Sutta
"There isn't even this much consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity. If there were even this much consciousness that was constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that would stay just as it is as long as eternity, then this living of the holy life for the right ending of suffering & stress would not be discerned. But because there isn't even this much consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity, this living of the holy life for the right ending of suffering & stress is discerned."

Saṃyutta Nikāya 22.97
Nakhasikhopama Sutta
"How would you answer if you are thus asked: A monk, a worthy one, with no more mental effluents: what is he on the break-up of the body, after death?"

"Thus asked, I would answer, 'Form is inconstant... Feeling... Perception... Fabrications... Consciousness is inconstant. That which is inconstant is stressful. That which is stressful has ceased and gone to its end."

Saṃyutta Nikāya 22.85
Yamaka Sutta
"This was said by the Lord…

“Bhikkhus, there are these two Nibbāna-elements. What are the two? The Nibbāna-element with residue left and the Nibbāna-element with no residue left.

“What, bhikkhus, is the Nibbāna-element with residue left? Here a bhikkhu is an arahant, one whose taints are destroyed, the holy life fulfilled, who has done what had to be done, laid down the burden, attained the goal, destroyed the fetters of being, completely released through final knowledge. However, his five sense faculties remain unimpaired, by which he still experiences what is agreeable and disagreeable and feels pleasure and pain. It is the extinction of attachment, hate, and delusion in him that is called the Nibbāna-element with residue left.

“Now what, bhikkhus, is the Nibbāna-element with no residue left? Here a bhikkhu is an arahant … completely released through final knowledge. For him, here in this very life, all that is experienced, not being delighted in, will be extinguished. That, bhikkhus, is called the Nibbāna-element with no residue left.

“These, bhikkhus, are the two Nibbāna-elements.”

These two Nibbāna-elements were made known
By the Seeing One, stable and unattached:
One is the element seen here and now
With residue, but with the cord of being destroyed;
The other, having no residue for the future,
Is that wherein all modes of being utterly cease.

Having understood the unconditioned state,
Released in mind with the cord of being destroyed,
They have attained to the Dhamma-essence.
Delighting in destruction,
Those stable ones have abandoned all being.

Itivuttaka 44
Nibbānadhātu Sutta
“And how, bhikkhus, do some lag behind? Devas and humans enjoy being, delight in being, are satisfied with being. When Dhamma is taught to them for the cessation of being, their minds do not enter into it or acquire confidence in it or settle upon it or become resolved upon it. Thus, bhikkhus, do some lag behind...

Itivuttaka 49
Diṭṭhi­gata­sutta
Last edited by dylanj on Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
Born, become, arisen – made, prepared, short-lived
Bonded by decay and death – a nest for sickness, perishable
Produced by seeking nutriment – not fit to take delight in


Departure from this is peaceful – beyond reasoning and enduring
Unborn, unarisen – free from sorrow and stain
Ceasing of all factors of suffering – stilling of all preparations is bliss

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dylanj
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Re: nibbāna is the cessation of existence

Post by dylanj » Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:10 pm

if your practice is circular this is probably why, you are trying to turn from samsara but also turn away from nibbana
Born, become, arisen – made, prepared, short-lived
Bonded by decay and death – a nest for sickness, perishable
Produced by seeking nutriment – not fit to take delight in


Departure from this is peaceful – beyond reasoning and enduring
Unborn, unarisen – free from sorrow and stain
Ceasing of all factors of suffering – stilling of all preparations is bliss

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Sam Vara
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Re: nibbāna is the cessation of existence

Post by Sam Vara » Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:24 pm

dylanj wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:07 pm
Eternalism is heresy. If there is something, it hasn't been given up. If not all has been given up, there is grasping.

Why is Dhamma so hard, especially nowadays?

A refusal to accept this fact, and the build-up over time of the popularity of views made by those who haven't accepted this fact.

After it's accepted this problem is gone.

& remember, the truth of having-been-given-up can't die. When all has ceased, what you've relinquished is still such :).

So there is no annihilation here.
I can't follow this, I'm afraid, as I don't know what the main terms here mean.

What do you mean by "eternalism"?

What do you mean by "if there is something"? Do you mean "if there is any existent at all"? If so, then it does not follow from the existence of something that it has not been given up. If one gives up x, then x does not thereby cease to exist; the former is a psychological fact, the latter an objective fact.

Do you mean that if there is something that exists as a self, then it hasn't been given up?

Clarification would be appreciated.

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dylanj
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Re: nibbāna is the cessation of existence

Post by dylanj » Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:33 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:24 pm
What do you mean by "eternalism"?
Belief in the continuity of a being or any other phenomenon.
Sam Vara wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:24 pm
What do you mean by "if there is something"? Do you mean "if there is any existent at all"?
Yes.
Sam Vara wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:24 pm
If so, then it does not follow from the existence of something that it has not been given up. If one gives up x, then x does not thereby cease to exist; the former is a psychological fact, the latter an objective fact.
No it does follow. "With grasping as condition there is existence." "All things are mind-made". But I mean existing for the individual, not in some objective world independent of one's psychological world. I mean the perception of existence (or the existence of perception - do not try to wriggle out of this).

This is not solipsism.
Sam Vara wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:24 pm
Do you mean that if there is something that exists as a self, then it hasn't been given up?
As a self or in relation to a self or in relation to what some subtle-eternalists might call "a being without a self" (contradiction)
Born, become, arisen – made, prepared, short-lived
Bonded by decay and death – a nest for sickness, perishable
Produced by seeking nutriment – not fit to take delight in


Departure from this is peaceful – beyond reasoning and enduring
Unborn, unarisen – free from sorrow and stain
Ceasing of all factors of suffering – stilling of all preparations is bliss

Saengnapha
Posts: 1350
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:17 am

Re: nibbāna is the cessation of existence

Post by Saengnapha » Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:36 pm

dylanj wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:07 pm
Eternalism is heresy. If there is something, it hasn't been given up. If not all has been given up, there is grasping.

Why is Dhamma so hard, especially nowadays?

A refusal to accept this fact, and the build-up over time of the popularity of views made by those who haven't accepted this fact.

After it's accepted this problem is gone.

& remember, the truth of having-been-given-up can't die. When all has ceased, what you've relinquished is still such :).

So there is no annihilation here.
I'm sure you have many personal problems that need more immediate attention than trying to sort out cessation of existence.

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cappuccino
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Re: nibbāna is the cessation of existence

Post by cappuccino » Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:28 pm

(edit) Nirvana is the cessation of existence, as we know it.


There is that dimension where there is neither earth, nor water, nor fire, nor wind; neither dimension of the infinitude of space, nor dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, nor dimension of nothingness, nor dimension of neither perception nor non-perception; neither this world, nor the next world, nor sun, nor moon. And there, I say, there is neither coming, nor going, nor staying; neither passing away nor arising: unestablished, unevolving, without support. This, just this, is the end of stress.”
Ud 8.1
Last edited by cappuccino on Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:17 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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equilibrium
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Re: nibbāna is the cessation of existence

Post by equilibrium » Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:40 pm

dylanj wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:07 pm
.....When all has ceased,.....
So what is left?

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manas
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Re: nibbāna is the cessation of existence

Post by manas » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:00 pm

Hi Dylan,

please read the Buddha's words as recorded here, carefully.
"And how is a monk a noble one with banner lowered, burden placed down, unfettered? There is the case where a monk's conceit 'I am' is abandoned, its root destroyed, made like a palmyra stump, deprived of the conditions of development, not destined for future arising. This is how a monk is a noble one with banner lowered, burden placed down, unfettered.

"And when the devas, together with Indra, the Brahmas, & Pajapati, search for the monk whose mind is thus released, they cannot find that 'The consciousness of the one truly gone (tathagata) [11] is dependent on this.' Why is that? The one truly gone is untraceable even in the here & now. [12]

"Speaking in this way, teaching in this way, I have been erroneously, vainly, falsely, unfactually misrepresented by some brahmans and contemplatives [who say], 'Gotama the contemplative is one who misleads. He declares the annihilation, destruction, extermination of the existing being.' But as I am not that, as I do not say that, so I have been erroneously, vainly, falsely, unfactually misrepresented by those venerable brahmans and contemplatives [who say], 'Gotama the contemplative is one who misleads. He declares the annihilation, destruction, extermination of the existing being.' [13]

"Both formerly and now, monks, I declare only stress and the cessation of stress. [14] And if others insult, abuse, taunt, bother, & harass the Tathagata for that, he feels no hatred, no resentment, no dissatisfaction of heart because of that.
He 'declares stress and the cessation of stress.' It's best to focus on that, rather than questions such as "who am I, what am I, do I exist, do I not exist", etc, because following along that line of questioning, won't lead to the ending of suffering & stress: (the first page of the Sabbasava Sutta is most illuminating regarding this: MN2 - https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html).

:anjali:
Like a merchant with a small
but well-laden caravan
–a dangerous road,

like a person who loves life
–a poison,

one should avoid
–evil deeds.

(Dhammapada 123)


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dylanj
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Re: nibbāna is the cessation of existence

Post by dylanj » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:56 am

cappuccino wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:28 pm
There is that dimension where there is neither earth, nor water, nor fire, nor wind; neither dimension of the infinitude of space, nor dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, nor dimension of nothingness, nor dimension of neither perception nor non-perception; neither this world, nor the next world, nor sun, nor moon. And there, I say, there is neither coming, nor going, nor staying; neither passing away nor arising: unestablished, unevolving, without support. This, just this, is the end of stress.”
Ud 8.1
Yes :) that's right.
Born, become, arisen – made, prepared, short-lived
Bonded by decay and death – a nest for sickness, perishable
Produced by seeking nutriment – not fit to take delight in


Departure from this is peaceful – beyond reasoning and enduring
Unborn, unarisen – free from sorrow and stain
Ceasing of all factors of suffering – stilling of all preparations is bliss

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dylanj
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Re: nibbāna is the cessation of existence

Post by dylanj » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:57 am

manas wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:00 pm
Hi Dylan,

please read the Buddha's words as recorded here, carefully.
"And how is a monk a noble one with banner lowered, burden placed down, unfettered? There is the case where a monk's conceit 'I am' is abandoned, its root destroyed, made like a palmyra stump, deprived of the conditions of development, not destined for future arising. This is how a monk is a noble one with banner lowered, burden placed down, unfettered.

"And when the devas, together with Indra, the Brahmas, & Pajapati, search for the monk whose mind is thus released, they cannot find that 'The consciousness of the one truly gone (tathagata) [11] is dependent on this.' Why is that? The one truly gone is untraceable even in the here & now. [12]

"Speaking in this way, teaching in this way, I have been erroneously, vainly, falsely, unfactually misrepresented by some brahmans and contemplatives [who say], 'Gotama the contemplative is one who misleads. He declares the annihilation, destruction, extermination of the existing being.' But as I am not that, as I do not say that, so I have been erroneously, vainly, falsely, unfactually misrepresented by those venerable brahmans and contemplatives [who say], 'Gotama the contemplative is one who misleads. He declares the annihilation, destruction, extermination of the existing being.' [13]

"Both formerly and now, monks, I declare only stress and the cessation of stress. [14] And if others insult, abuse, taunt, bother, & harass the Tathagata for that, he feels no hatred, no resentment, no dissatisfaction of heart because of that.
He 'declares stress and the cessation of stress.' It's best to focus on that, rather than questions such as "who am I, what am I, do I exist, do I not exist", etc, because following along that line of questioning, won't lead to the ending of suffering & stress: (the first page of the Sabbasava Sutta is most illuminating regarding this: MN2 - https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html).

:anjali:

Yes I am familiar with these quotes. They helped me come to this conclusion. There is no basis in these quotes for concluding that there is continuity of being after nibbaana.

The cessation of existence is the cessation of stress. In my post I did not talk about any beings let alone a self so I don't know where the recommendation to not focus on such comes from.

The Buddha did not teach the annihilation of a being because the being is void here & now. He taught the realization of that voidness. That realization is the cessation of existence.
Last edited by dylanj on Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
Born, become, arisen – made, prepared, short-lived
Bonded by decay and death – a nest for sickness, perishable
Produced by seeking nutriment – not fit to take delight in


Departure from this is peaceful – beyond reasoning and enduring
Unborn, unarisen – free from sorrow and stain
Ceasing of all factors of suffering – stilling of all preparations is bliss

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dylanj
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Re: nibbāna is the cessation of existence

Post by dylanj » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:59 am

Sorry, are people here under the impression that nibbana is not the cessation of existence?

This is declared quite explicitly."Bhavanirodho nibbānaṃ"
“One perception arose and another perception ceased in me: ‘The cessation of existence is nibbāna; the cessation of existence is nibbāna.’ Just as, when a fire of twigs is burning, one flame arises and another flame ceases, so one perception
arose and another perception ceased in me: ‘The cessation of existence is nibbāna; the cessation of existence is nibbāna.’ On that occasion, friend, I was percipient: ‘The cessation of existence is nibbāna.’”
https://suttacentral.net/en/an10.7
Born, become, arisen – made, prepared, short-lived
Bonded by decay and death – a nest for sickness, perishable
Produced by seeking nutriment – not fit to take delight in


Departure from this is peaceful – beyond reasoning and enduring
Unborn, unarisen – free from sorrow and stain
Ceasing of all factors of suffering – stilling of all preparations is bliss

Dinsdale
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Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: nibbāna is the cessation of existence

Post by Dinsdale » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:17 am

dylanj wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:59 am
Sorry, are people here under the impression that nibbana is not the cessation of existence?

This is declared quite explicitly."Bhavanirodho nibbānaṃ"
“One perception arose and another perception ceased in me: ‘The cessation of existence is nibbāna; the cessation of existence is nibbāna.’ Just as, when a fire of twigs is burning, one flame arises and another flame ceases, so one perception arose and another perception ceased in me: ‘The cessation of existence is nibbāna; the cessation of existence is nibbāna.’ On that occasion, friend, I was percipient: ‘The cessation of existence is nibbāna.’”
https://suttacentral.net/en/an10.7
So what does the cessation of becoming involve, practically speaking? And does the cessation of becoming occur at the point of Nibbana, or further down the line ( death of the Arahant ).
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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Re: nibbāna is the cessation of existence

Post by Saengnapha » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:32 am

dylanj wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:57 am
manas wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:00 pm
Hi Dylan,

please read the Buddha's words as recorded here, carefully.
"And how is a monk a noble one with banner lowered, burden placed down, unfettered? There is the case where a monk's conceit 'I am' is abandoned, its root destroyed, made like a palmyra stump, deprived of the conditions of development, not destined for future arising. This is how a monk is a noble one with banner lowered, burden placed down, unfettered.

"And when the devas, together with Indra, the Brahmas, & Pajapati, search for the monk whose mind is thus released, they cannot find that 'The consciousness of the one truly gone (tathagata) [11] is dependent on this.' Why is that? The one truly gone is untraceable even in the here & now. [12]

"Speaking in this way, teaching in this way, I have been erroneously, vainly, falsely, unfactually misrepresented by some brahmans and contemplatives [who say], 'Gotama the contemplative is one who misleads. He declares the annihilation, destruction, extermination of the existing being.' But as I am not that, as I do not say that, so I have been erroneously, vainly, falsely, unfactually misrepresented by those venerable brahmans and contemplatives [who say], 'Gotama the contemplative is one who misleads. He declares the annihilation, destruction, extermination of the existing being.' [13]

"Both formerly and now, monks, I declare only stress and the cessation of stress. [14] And if others insult, abuse, taunt, bother, & harass the Tathagata for that, he feels no hatred, no resentment, no dissatisfaction of heart because of that.
He 'declares stress and the cessation of stress.' It's best to focus on that, rather than questions such as "who am I, what am I, do I exist, do I not exist", etc, because following along that line of questioning, won't lead to the ending of suffering & stress: (the first page of the Sabbasava Sutta is most illuminating regarding this: MN2 - https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html).

:anjali:

Yes I am familiar with these quotes. They helped me come to this conclusion. There is no basis in these quotes for concluding that there is continuity of being after nibbaana.

The cessation of existence is the cessation of stress. In my post I did not talk about any beings let alone a self so I don't know where the recommendation to not focus on such comes from.

The Buddha did not teach the annihilation of a being because the being is void here & now. He taught the realization of that voidness. That realization is the cessation of existence.
Actually, it is the cessation of the view of cessation of existence. Existence neither exists nor doesn't exist. That voidness is also empty of voidness. Voidness is not a 'thing'.

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cappuccino
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Re: nibbāna is the cessation of existence

Post by cappuccino » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:13 pm

Obviously a deathless state is not eternal death.

A deathless state is that to which death doesn't apply.

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Re: nibbāna is the cessation of existence

Post by cappuccino » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:33 pm

If you say, "It's the end of the world."

I would say, "As we know it."

Nirvana is the cessation of existence, as we know it.

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